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p51 startup got a little more difficult...


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...or is it just me? The first startup usually goes fine but then after shutting down the engine it becomes very difficult to get it going again. Thats not to say its impossible, but it usually takes a dozen or two tries to get the engine started. This began after the 1.2.1 update. Is anyone else experiencing this or does anyone have any tips on starting up?

 

Not that i want my engine to startup perfectly each time, i actually prefer some challenge :lol:

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I definitely noticed that too. As far as I can tell, it has something to do with how much you open the throttle. I found it kind of helps to fine tune it while you hold down the starter switch, then switch from idle to run when the engine sounds like it's catching a little better.

 

I have no idea the mechanics behind it, but if I had to guess I'd say it's something to do with the engine thermodynamics that they implemented in the recent patch.

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It sounds like it is simulating a hot start! A hot start requires a slightly different technique, and is usually a little more of a challenge!

 

Oooo, do explain!?

 

 

Depends on the temperature. Try a cold start at -30°C. wink.gif

 

Hahaha, this should be interesting, so how does the technique vary with engine temp?

<VAAF>

Virtual Australian Air-Force :thumbup::joystick::pilotfly:

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Hahaha, this should be interesting, so how does the technique vary with engine temp?

 

Cold oil means high viscosity and friction, which means that your starter motor will burn out very quickly if you don't get it to run.

Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two.

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...or is it just me? The first startup usually goes fine but then after shutting down the engine it becomes very difficult to get it going again. Thats not to say its impossible, but it usually takes a dozen or two tries to get the engine started. This began after the 1.2.1 update. Is anyone else experiencing this or does anyone have any tips on starting up?

 

Not that i want my engine to startup perfectly each time, i actually prefer some challenge :lol:

 

Hey, I noticed that as well. But I discovered that if I leave the throttle at idle it start perfectly every time (summer, 20 deg C). Only if I give it a little throttle as instructed by the training videos I can't get it started.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Elite, Intel i9 9900K, Fractal Design Kelvin S36, Zotac GTX 1070 8GB AMP Extreme, 32GB DDR4 HyperX CL15 Predator Series @ 3000 MHz, Kingston SSD 240GB (OS), Samsung 970 EVO 1TB M.2 NVMe (sim), Fractal Design Define R5 Black Window, EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G2, Win 10 Home x64, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals, Thrustmaster MFD Cougar Pack, TrackIR (DelanClip), 3x 27" BenQ EW2740L, Oculus Rift S

 

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Hey, I noticed that as well. But I discovered that if I leave the throttle at idle it start perfectly every time (summer, 20 deg C). Only if I give it a little throttle as instructed by the training videos I can't get it started.

 

The engine simulates fuel flow MUCH MUCH MUCH better now, let the engine sputter out when you lean out the mixture to turn it off, or else your risk flooding the engine (which is extremely easy to do now, prime on the lean side).

<VAAF>

Virtual Australian Air-Force :thumbup::joystick::pilotfly:

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The engine simulates fuel flow MUCH MUCH MUCH better now, let the engine sputter out when you lean out the mixture to turn it off, or else your risk flooding the engine (which is extremely easy to do now, prime on the lean side).

 

 

On a further note, has anyone managed to start the aircraft in VERY hot environmental conditions? I tried at 37 degrees Celsius and couldn't get a startup.

<VAAF>

Virtual Australian Air-Force :thumbup::joystick::pilotfly:

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I have been capable of starting the p-51d in previous version within 30 seconds flat, but since the newest update I just can't start the engine for some unknown reason. I feel that there's been a new process in the startup that I'm not doing correctly.

 

I manage to get up to using the primer and starting the engine and the prop rotates and switch from idle cut-off to RUN but the engine just won't start. If anyone knows why I'd be appreciated to know why. I have a feeling it may be something to do with fuel but that is just a guess.

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In normal temps (~20'C) I have no problems, but I keep burning out the starter when doing cold weather starts (~-22'C) was my last try.. I could rotate the prop but it would just not catch. I don't think I'm using the Oil Dilute properly..

See, decide, attack, reverse -- Colonel Erich "Bubi" Hartmann

 

MSI Trident X 10th with 10700F, 2070 Super Ventus, 32 Gb DDR4 RAM, NVMe SSD for OS, 1 TB 870 Evo SSD for DCS, Quest 2

 

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In normal temps (~20'C) I have no problems, but I keep burning out the starter when doing cold weather starts (~-22'C) was my last try.. I could rotate the prop but it would just not catch. I don't think I'm using the Oil Dilute properly..

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the oil dilute is done with a warm running engine, so that the start up will be easier next time in cold weather. A fairly useless function in DCS.

From the shadows of war's past a demon of the air rises from the grave.

 

"Onward to the land of kings—via the sky of aces!"

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the oil dilute is done with a warm running engine, so that the start up will be easier next time in cold weather. A fairly useless function in DCS.

You could land somewhere cold, shut down, go and eat dinner and hang out with the family for a while, then come back & start it cold ...

:)

 

Starting at -20 is not an aspect of the sim I'd given a lot of thought to but it seems to me that - assumong the starter & battery last till you've cranked the dilluted oil through the engine - it should at that point make a difference...

 

Incidentally:

Georgia's climate is affected by subtropical influences from the west and Mediterranean influences from the east. The Greater Caucasus range moderates local climate by serving as a barrier against cold air from the north. Warm, moist air from the Black Sea moves easily into the coastal lowlands from the west. Climatic zones are determined by distance from the Black Sea and by altitude. Along the Black Sea coast, from Abkhazia to the Turkish border, and in the region known as the Kolkhida Lowlands inland from the coast, the dominant subtropical climate features high humidity and heavy precipitation (1,000 to 2,000 mm/39.4 to 78.7 in per year; the Black Sea port of Batumi receives 2,500 mm/98.4 in per year). Several varieties of palm trees grow in these regions, where the midwinter average temperature is 5 °C (41 °F) and the midsummer average is 22 °C (71.6 °F).

 

The plains of eastern Georgia are shielded from the influence of the Black Sea by mountains that provide a more continental climate. Summer temperatures average 20 °C (68 °F) to 24 °C (75.2 °F), winter temperatures 2 °C (35.6 °F) to 4 °C (39.2 °F). Humidity is lower, and rainfall averages 500 to 800 mm (19.7 to 31.5 in) per year. Alpine and highland regions in the east and west, as well as a semi-arid region on the Iori Plateau to the southeast, have distinct microclimates.


Edited by Weta43

Cheers.

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  • ED Team
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the oil dilute is done with a warm running engine, so that the start up will be easier next time in cold weather. A fairly useless function in DCS.

 

We had to implement it as we made oil viscosity and a true starter model. Without it the cold start is impossible. The only thing that is against the real things is oil dilution at cold engine after mission start. But there is no way to start an engine except calling an air heating car... :)

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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While we're talking about this, I have a request:

 

PLEASE, please allow mixture to be assigned to a joystick axis. At the moment, we have to crank, maybe prime, switch on the mags once we count six blades, then push the mixture to run. Too much for one mouse! Sure, I could assign the buttons for my stick. But the real thing is a little lever dammit! :)

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I have tested high temperatures start-up... the problem is that the modelling is too deep :). The carburettor at low rpm and MP (idle) do not meter fuel but injected certain amount of it.

High temperature -> low density -> low air/fuel ratio -> no combustion.

 

I could reduce the strenght of the mixture at idle but I am not sure that low temp start won't be hurt. The real mixture selector does not SWITCH valves but it OPENS them, i.e. when you turn the selector the valve opens gradually, so the mixture strengh does not jump to its highest value at once.

 

The problem is: do you want one more axis in controls? :)

 

I managed to start an engine at 40C using a kind of PWM :) closing mixture selector to IDLE CUTOFF and then again to RUN very fast and watching the engine behaviour.

 

A palliative: we can try to imitate gradual opening of the valve using inertial filter.


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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I could reduce the strenght of the mixture at idle but I am not sure that low temp start won't be hurt. The real mixture selector does not SWITCH valves but it OPENS them, i.e. when you turn the selector the valve opens gradually, so the mixture strengh does not jump to its highest value at once.

 

The problem is: do you want one more axis in controls? :)

 

Yes! See my post above. It really should be on an axis. :) What you say just makes the argument for this stronger!

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At the moment, we have to crank, maybe prime, switch on the mags once we count six blades, then push the mixture to run. Too much for one mouse!

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think you're doing it wrong..

 

1. Batteries on

2. Both left side lever's up (forgot the names)

3. Fuel cut-off on (up)

4. Magneto's to both (on)

5. RPM max (forward)

6. Prime for a few seconds (up)

7. Press the starter (up)

 

Once the engine sounds like it is catching, simply press "M" to move the mixture to "run". You can hold the starter button via the mouse button and use the "M" on the keyboard at the same time.

See, decide, attack, reverse -- Colonel Erich "Bubi" Hartmann

 

MSI Trident X 10th with 10700F, 2070 Super Ventus, 32 Gb DDR4 RAM, NVMe SSD for OS, 1 TB 870 Evo SSD for DCS, Quest 2

 

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  • 8 months later...

I managed to start an engine at 40C using a kind of PWM :) closing mixture selector to IDLE CUTOFF and then again to RUN very fast and watching the engine behaviour.

 

 

Heh..., so i'm not the only one to figure this by myself, although it wasn't hard to think of it, yet it seems to be the only reliable option to start it in this condition..., yet i doubt that it would be easier to find the perfect spot where to place the mixture handle or jiggle it a little bit in that area to have the engine started...!

 

The way i do it quite easly, except for the fact that at lower temps than 36C only one cycle is enough to have the engine started with no primer or anything..., is to press the M key or the button for which you might have the mixture handle assigned fast enough until you complete 3 cycles from IDLE CUTOFF through RUN and then through EMERGENCY..., so if you'd press the M key 10 times on a hot day you'll have the engine started with no other headaches, although it looks hilarious, it's the only way!

 

 

Cheers.

Mistakes, obviously, show us what needs improving. Without mistakes, how would we know what we had to work on!











Making DCS a better place for realism.

Let it be, ED!



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