Jump to content

Su-25T wingman dumps weapons when ordered to engage helicopters


maturin
 Share

Recommended Posts

Surely you don't need to jettison all your rockets and missiles (effectively mission-killing yourself) just to fire an R-60 at a pesky chopper.

 

Because when the only enemy air on the map is a M-24, and I order my wingman to Engage Bandits, he goes into dogfighting mode and loses all his weapons.

 

Wingmen should only jettison weapons when they are engaging planes, not choppers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't replicate it in the track either, although the loadout and units were the same. If it's not actually a consistent result, I won't worry about it.

 

But maybe the AI will dump all their weapons if a helicopter opens fire on them from 5km with an anti-tank missile? That would be a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Vikhr or Hellfire, however, should be treated more as a deterrent or annoyance than a lethal threat. If a chopper engages a jet, it's to dissuade them from an attack, and the jet shouldn't freak out and abandon its ground attack mission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Vikhr or Hellfire is just as lethal as any other missile, of course the AI should give himself the best possible chance of evading it.

 

That said, you can set the AI not to react to a threat and what evasive behaviour he performs in the mission editor.

 

Nate

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doesn't the standard phrase go something like "You and your aircraft are more important than your mission." :)

ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nevermind lethal--wrong word choice.

 

The fact is, no rational thinking being is going to give up on the mission and return home in defeat because a chopper opened fire on him from extreme range with a slow, slow missile that can be avoided with the slightest bit of evasive maneuvering.

 

As a player, I never dump my weapons when targeted by MANPADs and IR missiles (from other short range ground attack planes). Do you seriously think any player would dump weapons just because he saw a Hellfire launched at him?

 

Dumping your weapons is good for dogfighting, not a kneejerk reaction to being engaged. Should the AI also dump his weapons to avoid the Shilkas in the target zone?

 

A better AI response would be to dump weapons when ordered to engage a jet, or when defending from a jet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a player, I never dump my weapons when targeted by MANPADs and IR missiles (from other short range ground attack planes). Do you seriously think any player would dump weapons just because he saw a Hellfire launched at him?

 

Well, the AI shouldn't act like a player, the AI should attempt to emulate the behaviour of real pilots. In more cases than not, the difference is large. :)

Win10 x64 | SSDs | i5 2500K @ 4.4 GHz | 16 GB RAM | GTX 970 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Saitek pedals | TIR5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In that case, helicopters shouldn't be flying around at 5000m hunting down jets with such gung-ho efficacy. But I already made that thread.

 

I defy anyone to tell me, however, that a real pilot would ever dump his weapons because a Hellfire was coming his way.

 

You don't dump your weapons seconds before impact, because that time would best be spent evading the missile. Once you enter in a dogfight, you dump the weapons for greater agility. But you don't need agility against a chopper because you don't dogfight a chopper. You just fly away and come back to kill it at your leisure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How can the pilot be sure it is a Hellfire on its way? Anyway as I said, you control how the AI reacts to these situations in the ME.

 

Nate

Because it was fired from a ground attack helicopter, is moving at a fraction of the speed, and doesn't have a smoke trail. I'm talking about a Su-25 wingman, whose RWR (AFAIK) wouldn't pick up an ATGM with no radar lock. So he either acquires the missile visually or doesn't see it all.

 

But since the DCS AI sees EVERYTHING (AFAIK), he will always know that a hellfire is on the way, and dump the weapons.

 

The whole point of this thread was that I can't control the AI's reaction. There is no 'don't dump weapons' button.

 

I have told my wingman to attack Air Defenses. The only unit on the map was a Zu-23 and he dumped all his Kh-25s and bombs and ran away. That's a pretty big derp.

 

I feel like everyone is pointlessly arguing the principle of the thing, rather than considering what will simulate realistic behavior in the majority of situations. The current AI decisionmaking is very arbitrary and prejudicial to their effectiveness with little increase in survivability to be offered.

 

Would you please answer me this: Would any real life pilot spend the handful of seconds before missile impact fiddling with switches to jettison his weapons? No, he would have one hand on the stick and one hand on the throttle, maneuvering hard with his mind on other things. Once the missile was evaded, he would evaluate whether the threat was still capable of engaging him. A chopper would not be able to keep up with a fast jet. And so I would expect the AI to dump weapons only when evading other fixed wings and serious SAMs (and not Zu-23!).


Edited by maturin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jettison is usually a single button, quick to push to allow the pilot to dump everything in an emergency and not fiddle with switches. A real pilot would probably push the button and then maneuver, as not pushing it means the missile is going to have an easier time getting a kill.

[sIGPIC]http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/Exorcet/F-15singaturebaseACOmodifiedcomp-1.jpg[/sIGPIC]

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have told my wingman to attack Air Defenses. The only unit on the map was a Zu-23 and he dumped all his Kh-25s and bombs and ran away. That's a pretty big derp.

.

 

That is obviously a bug - I'd like a track if you could. As for the Helos attacking you can change the default behaviour of the Wingmen in the ME.

 

Nate

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...