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Do jammers actually do anything?


marcos
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The jammer does what is known as reference jamming. If you are on the correct mode against a threat the jammer prevents the radar from gaining range data. As a result it will likely hold fire until it either has you visual or the radar "burns through" the jamming. Once burn-through is reached the jammer is essentially rendered ineffective against that threat and it will probably fire on you.

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Jammer works good in the A-10C against Shilka and Tungaska so long as you set everything to Automatic. As it takes a combination of Chaff and Jammer to effectively spoof the radar.:thumbup:

I see, so it reduces range, thanks. I find you can outrange them with GAU-8 spam anyway but I guess further reduction of their range tilts the odds even better.

 

 

The jammer does what is known as reference jamming. If you are on the correct mode against a threat the jammer prevents the radar from gaining range data. As a result it will likely hold fire until it either has you visual or the radar "burns through" the jamming. Once burn-through is reached the jammer is essentially rendered ineffective against that threat and it will probably fire on you.

I guess reducing the range of some SAMs can bring you inside Maverick range, but if you need to evade the SAM due to a lack of missiles, reducing its lock range can be counter productive as it reduces your avoidance time.


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Jammer works good in the A-10C against Shilka and Tungaska so long as you set everything to Automatic. As it takes a combination of Chaff and Jammer to effectively spoof the radar.:thumbup:

 

Err... The jammer has nothing to do with chaffs and flares.

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Do jammers actually do anything?

 

No.

 

ECM will just reduce the range at which the SAM obtains a hard lock, ie goes from search to track. The range at launch will always be the same, irrespective of whether you use ECM or not. As such, ECM is by and large useless when utilized against A.I.

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I see, so it reduces range...

 

Yes and no. It reduces the range at which the radar obtains a valid firing solution (which is the matter of tactical importance). However, it functions by impairing the ranging of the SAM radar (without necessarily increasing or decreasing) and thereby degrading it's firing solution.

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As far as DCS goes (for now at least) it gives people a warm fuzzy feeling, and looks pretty hanging on the wing, but that is all.

 

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Err... The jammer has nothing to do with chaffs and flares.

 

Actually it does, the jammer is linked to the countermeasures system if you set it to automatic it releases the chaff/flares automatically while at the same time jamming the detected threat. In one of my missions I use a Shilka and a Tungaska as enemy and have to hit the convoys they protect. In most cases I can get good results so long as the countermeasures is on Auto so I can concentrate on hitting the tgt. Its a different matter with the Gauntlet mission as in that the threats are quite close and so even with countermeasures setup its very difficult to get through without getting hit.:doh:

The MWS also sets off the countermeasures, you can see the jammer activate when this stuff is activated also to limit its uses reduces chances of the Jammer being used against you. :thumbup:

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As far as DCS goes (for now at least) it gives people a warm fuzzy feeling, and looks pretty hanging on the wing, but that is all.

 

Are they planning on changing this when FC3 is released? I get the impression it does make a difference all though most missions I'm using it against Shilka and Tungaska radar. :pilotfly:

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Are they planning on changing this when FC3 is released? I get the impression it does make a difference all though most missions I'm using it against Shilka and Tungaska radar. :pilotfly:

 

As Viper said, it will reduce the range at which units can obtain a lock (especially humans), just as it did in FC2 (AFAIK).

 

But as far as what ECM should do (i.e. aid in defeating missiles/breaking a lock) it doesn't do a thing. As soon as you're fired on, or even locked up, in DCS ECM is of no use at all. DCS ECM is only useful before that point, which is pretty much the exact opposite of reality (as far as self protection jammers go).

 

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As far as DCS goes (for now at least) it gives people a warm fuzzy feeling, and looks pretty hanging on the wing, but that is all.

 

Well, I feel I've gotten some help with from the jammer. If it is going to help you at all, you have to remember that it basically makes it harder from the SAM site to lock you, but nothing else. This means that the time to use the jammer is when you get the tracking tone from the SAM site. If I use the jammer at this time, it seems to significantly delay the SAM getting a lock on me. Now, I say delay because if you get close enough or give it enough time, they will still get a lock. But, it gives me time to get away.

 

Once you have the lock tone/missile launch, it's too late. The jammer won't break through the lock and in this situations I see no effect using the jammer.

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Actually it does, the jammer is linked to the countermeasures system if you set it to automatic it releases the chaff/flares automatically while at the same time jamming the detected threat. In one of my missions I use a Shilka and a Tungaska as enemy and have to hit the convoys they protect. In most cases I can get good results so long as the countermeasures is on Auto so I can concentrate on hitting the tgt. Its a different matter with the Gauntlet mission as in that the threats are quite close and so even with countermeasures setup its very difficult to get through without getting hit.:doh:

The MWS also sets off the countermeasures, you can see the jammer activate when this stuff is activated also to limit its uses reduces chances of the Jammer being used against you. :thumbup:

 

The jammer can be run completely independently of any of the things you talk about. This thread has nothing at all to do with flares or chaff.

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Indeed, as has already been mentioned the current ECM implementation simply reduces the range at which a threat system will obtain a lock by a arbitrary amount using what is esentially a simplistic implementation of noise jamming.

 

This is not what self protection jammers actually do. A realistic (or even anything close to realistic) implementaion of self protection jammers employing deception jamming techniques would be a very different animal and add whole new realm of tactical considerations.

 

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Once you have the lock tone/missile launch, it's too late. The jammer won't break through the lock and in this situations I see no effect using the jammer.

 

Incorrect good application of combination of automatic mode with the countermeasures combined with the jammer and MWS I often avoid getting hit by SAMs particularly from Tungaska. And when engaged by Shilka the effect is less accuracy from the AAA so its possible to engage a SAM/AAA unit which is VLAAD unit so long as you still break away from a far enough distance. At low level during the Gauntlet run I've found the biggest threat is AAA not SAMs. At close range the Jammer/Countermeasures will avoid most missiles because of that combined with ground clutter but AAA still gets you.

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The jammer can be run completely independently of any of the things you talk about. This thread has nothing at all to do with flares or chaff.

 

Actually it has everything to do with it as you have to use all of the systems to get good effective missile/AAA avoidance. The combination of the jammer/chaff causes missiles to miss and AAA to be less accurate. Chaff is tin foil that causes the radar to have difficulty locking the aircraft as well as the radar from the missile. Thats why its used so if you just fly around using the jammer the radar will still lock you up and shoot you down and you do not have the time to waste pushing chaff/flares button when you're buisy firing missiles thats why Automatic IMO seems to work quite well.

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Actually it has everything to do with it as you have to use all of the systems to get good effective missile/AAA avoidance. The combination of the jammer/chaff causes missiles to miss and AAA to be less accurate. Chaff is tin foil that causes the radar to have difficulty locking the aircraft as well as the radar from the missile. Thats why its used so if you just fly around using the jammer the radar will still lock you up and shoot you down and you do not have the time to waste pushing chaff/flares button when you're buisy firing missiles thats why Automatic IMO seems to work quite well.

 

The thread was about the jammer and its effectiveness in DCS.

You are discussing tactics and the CMS.

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Yep, what he said ^

 

 

Also, keeping your countermeasures in automatic is a sure shot way of dispensing all of your chaff and flares in matter of seconds. Learn to use semi and activate it on your own accord.

 

 

Right now (in terms of ECM), you get spiked by something on the RWR, flip the jammer on, squeeze your buttcheeks, and hope for the best.

 

Once you're fire upon, "Left Cntrl. + E" three times should do the trick.

 

Missiles still track through mountains it seems... Pretty displeased with that.

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Yep, what he said ^

 

 

Also, keeping your countermeasures in automatic is a sure shot way of dispensing all of your chaff and flares in matter of seconds. Learn to use semi and activate it on your own accord.

Or, slightly easier, assign a key command to put it in auto, at a time of your choosing.

 

Right now (in terms of ECM), you get spiked by something on the RWR, flip the jammer on, squeeze your buttcheeks, and hope for the best.

 

Once you're fire upon, "Left Cntrl. + E" three times should do the trick.

 

Missiles still track through mountains it seems... Pretty displeased with that.

The SAM systems seem to track through mountains but the missiles can't. Check out the attached track and pics in the link:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=95806

 

Some awesome missile avoidance, even if I do say so myself.:D

 

In the game though, if one of those pop-up Igla groups appear on a mountain-top half-way through the mission, it's curtains.

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And you'd be dead wrong marcos I'm afraid.

 

I have reported this and have shown videos of it doing otherwise.

 

 

SA-11 sites can track and fire through mountains as if not there (Obviously if it hits the hill it explodes, it doesn't go through it, but it manouvers the missile towards your aircraft as if the hill is not even there.)

 

 

Just 2 nights ago I was playing with ENO, and we both got fired upon by an SA-11 behind the hill, my RWR was picking up the missile launches and as soon as we got through a little crack in the hill, that's where the missile came through and killed us both, from a very long ways away may I add. Has happened to me on MANY MANY occasions.

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And you'd be dead wrong marcos I'm afraid.

 

I have reported this and have shown videos of it doing otherwise.

 

 

SA-11 sites can track and fire through mountains as if not there (Obviously if it hits the hill it explodes, it doesn't go through it, but it manouvers the missile towards your aircraft as if the hill is not even there.)

 

 

Just 2 nights ago I was playing with ENO, and we both got fired upon by an SA-11 behind the hill, my RWR was picking up the missile launches and as soon as we got through a little crack in the hill, that's where the missile came through and killed us both, from a very long ways away may I add. Has happened to me on MANY MANY occasions.

 

Have you put a track in the bug thread ?

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