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SA-19 Tunguska


Leto
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I think the behaviour of the Tunguska is a little bit weird since 1.2.1

 

I like the 2 stage animation

g5jpk.jpg

 

but take a look at this: I get a missile warning on RWR and take the thread(s) on my 9o'clock. And turn.... and turn..... and turn... Tunguskas are firing 35 missiles on me. And except for the first one I get no missile launch warning. 36th missile I get a missile warning and it hits. Reproducable. Not with the exact number but it's mostly about 25-35 missiles until the first one hits. And everytime only 2 RWR missile warnings.

cT4Z3.jpg

 

Another cool trick by SA-19:

Missile passes the airplane and performs a looping to track again

M7F0x.jpg

 

well... honestly I really don't know if that's possible... but I know next one should not be possible unless RU has some really cool stuff: SA-19 misses airplane and does a downward looping diving into sea... and emerges to track again :D

xypvt.jpg

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ah... SA-19 are set to expert... of course.

 

here is a short TACVIEW file... 38 missiles and again only 2 missile warnings

TF1-break.zip

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If you refer to the looping actions... no... no .trk

 

for the problem with S-19 firing 30 missiles without a hit... standby... I will record one and post it in a couple of minutes

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Confirm, 6288.

 

Here you go with the track. Sorry, this time it took only 20 missiles to down me ;)

 

And just to mention: no ECM/Chaffs/Flares were used, no evasive maneuver

TF-3.trk


Edited by Leto

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Same here, two missile launch warnings at the start, then nothing. Finally a third one that hits you.

 

Seems to be a bug, unless there are certain blindspots in the A10C's MWS receivers. Don't see those mentioned in the flight manual though.

 

Guess we will have to wait for someone whit a bit more knowledge on the subject.

 

As for the amount of missiles it needs to down you, its pretty much launching at its max range. Given the fact your flying in a big circle around it

the missile may just not have the maneuvering capability/energy to keep up at that range.

 

What you are doing is basically one huge evasive maneuver, by keeping the missiles on your 3-9 line you maximize your relative lateral speed

and thus the amount of energy the missile has to expend to keep up.

 

Im sure people will pop-up doing a better job at explaining this though.


Edited by 159th_Falcon

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Thanks for having a look on that.

 

I am aware that 3/9 is bleeding lots of energy from the incoming missile. But compare this behaviour to an OSA or TOR or even IR guided like Strela... if you fly the same pattern that I fly, they'll get you after 1-3 missiles. But Tunguska behaves completely different. Maybe that's by intention 'cause SA-19 can also be optically guided. But 20 to 38 missiles?


Edited by Leto

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Just want to add that I have been observing the same weird loopings up and down through the water surface with SA-19s. I cannot comment on the RWR issue though. This version has so far been the most buggy for me since 1.1.0.6 or whichever it was that had the strange explosion effect crashes.

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Here is another example of 42 SA-19 getting fired on my a/c, 36th hits. Missile warning on holiday ;)

 

Included .trk, .miz and Tacview

TF-6.zip

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Thanks for the detailed information and track files. I have replicated the issue on the testers build.

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SA-19 behaviour seems to be pretty accurate to me, remember it's a SACLOS system that is not terribly effective against fixed wing aircraft and that is finally represented in DCS now.

 

The SA-19 (and some other systems, both Russian and NATO) have been overly effective in DCS for some time. If you're stupid and fly straight towards one, or fly at low speed (especially at close range) then they can and will hit you, but they are far less capable vs a fixed wing aircraft than other SAM systems employing semi-active/active/TVM homing.

 

Although of course it goes without saying that the missile shouldn't be doing loops etc.

 

As far as MAWS performance, there are indeed blind spots in the systems coverage, and it's not perfect (in fact it's 'better' in DCS in some areas that it should be). I'll take a look at the track when I get home as see if anythig untoward is going on as far as MWS is concered. But I haven't noticed anything strange in 1.2.1 myself.

 

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Of course SACLOS isn't as effective as a modern self-guided missile system. But 1 of 42 would be a really bad result even for this system. Perhaps it's the proximity fuse not working. In my testruns there were a lot of really close calls. If the proximity fuse had worked on the Grison it would have hit me a lot more / earlier.

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I personally havn't found them to be anything close to that inaccurate, they seemed to be reasonably effective if you made no attempt to defeat the missile.

 

But Grimes has reported that, so if there is anything untoward going on it'll be fixed. It does sould like fusing could indeed be the culprit.

 

Although it's not "realistic" (it's more effective IRL than in CA with a player operating it), operating the SA-19 in Combined Arms will give some appreciation of why the SA-19 struggles with high LOS rate/manoeuvring targets. Get in close however and the guns will ruin your day.

 

Personally the main issue for me as far as the SA-19 goes is that they enage targets with missiles that they have no hope of hitting rather than either allowing the target to get closer/be in a more favourable position/use their guns or even skip the target and wait for something they can actually hit. But then that same AI limitation is true of all air defence systems in DCS at the moment.

 

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No it's 10 units, each carrying 8 missiles.

 

No I didn't because it's not about killing Tunguskas. Maybe you want to read the text around the pictures.

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No it's 10 units, each carrying 8 missiles.

 

No I didn't because it's not about killing Tunguskas. Maybe you want to read the text around the pictures.

 

1. Thanks.

 

2. I'm not asking because of killing Tunguskas, I'm asking because Tunguskas were very effective in shooting down ARMs in my tests of ARMs vs. different SAM systems. Kinda funny, compared to the behavior you're describing vs. A-10s.

 

P.S. Snide remarks are not helpful - maybe try and ask if the question is not clear.


Edited by PE_Tigar
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  • 2 weeks later...

The lack of MWR notifications has to do with the guidance system of the missile, I think. The Tunguska just doesn't cause them, in the Su-25T either.

 

More importantly, the Tunguska can eat incoming ARMs for breakfast, yet is useless against circling, lightly maneuvering aircraft. I can emphatically corroborate the OP's findings that the Tunguska is practically useless at many ranges and altitudes. Over a dozen missiles harmlessly missed a slow, slow frogfoot.

 

Edit: And so far as I know, the guidance IRL is not pure SACLOS. The pilot just defines the target with a SACLOS-like system but there is a radar involved.


Edited by maturin
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Effectiveness of Tunguska could be better if there were auto-lock feature. Now you have to manually aim pointer over plane shape. It is very difficult because it depends of the hardware you have, especially mouse and its precision. Also when target is flying perpendicularly to you it is impossible to keep steady position of target aimer over the target.

Something a'la Shkval lock would be good.

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