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Why am I doing all the work?


Hogwash
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I noticed last night in the first of the standalone missions that I was doing all the work. Doesn't friendly AI kill anything? They might as well not have been there.

 

Did you ask/tell them to kill anything?

 

 

Also noticed that radio calls get no response. :(

 

Did you select/tune the proper channel/frequency for specific flights/wingmen?

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I noticed last night in the first of the standalone missions that I was doing all the work. Doesn't friendly AI kill anything? They might as well not have been there.

 

Also noticed that radio calls get no response. :(

Bring the mission into editor and give them more specific instructions. I occasionally even add Apaches for mopping shit up and I occasionally call in heavy bombers to prevent enemy aircraft taking off.:smilewink:

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I made sure the frequencies were 100% correctly set but no comms from anyone.

 

I understand I need to task my wingman to attack but how long does the instruction, say; 'attack armour', last? What I'm referring to is the swarm of F16s and other Hogs flying out of (Batumi?) just seem to fly around doing next to nothing. Do I need to task them as well?

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It's your sim on your PC, isn't you doing all the work kinda the point? But I get what you mean.

 

I usually find if I task my flight to destroy something, they go way overboard and I'm like, "hey, leave some for me." But yeah, unless I tell them to attack, they just follow me like baby ducks and don't break for anything but a missile fired at them.

 

Is there a good way to get them to attack specific targets so I don't have to orbit somewhere waiting for them to be done to make sure we don't waste munitions by firing at the same tank? I noticed if you select "engage with" your pilot voice will say "...at my SPI..." but is there another pathway in the menu?

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Hmm, so I have to control the entire battle space? That's a bit lame. I was just looking for a combat flight simulator (just me and my wingman), not a strategic sim!

 

Regarding comms, the Comms menu button brings up the Menu system and I appear to transmit but I get no response at all. Do I need to enable 'Easy Communication' for that to work?

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The planes flying CAP are useless. There's no way CAS should have to actually call on CAP to come fire on an aircraft when:

 

a) they have radars and the CAS plane doesn't; and

 

b) the sole objective of their mission is to take out enemy planes.

 

It's like CAS expecting CAP planes to spot the ground targets for them.

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Hmm, so I have to control the entire battle space? That's a bit lame. I was just looking for a combat flight simulator (just me and my wingman), not a strategic sim!

 

Then go ahead and look for missions that suit your needs, or build your own with the mission editor. It really depends on the mission. Some missions expect you to manage the battlefield, others keep things straight and simple.

 

The management-aspect in some missions, I assume, tries to simulate how different units work together and keep each other informed about the action, enemy locations etc. They try to involve you in the action by having you actively call for reinforcements. Personally, in these missions I just call all the reinforcements as soon as they're available. That way, SEAD and CAP will have cleared up as much of the battlefield as possible so that I can hunt down a column of tanks or whatever my target is.

 

Regarding comms, the Comms menu button brings up the Menu system and I appear to transmit but I get no response at all. Do I need to enable 'Easy Communication' for that to work?

 

Either easy comms, or you actually need to operate the right radio. In the controls menu, look for Mic switch forward, aft and down in the HOTAS section, they activate the VHF AM, VHF FM and UHF radios respectively. On top of the on-screen radio menu, you'll also see which one is activated.

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I think we can all agree that the AI needs some work.

 

But maybe that will be addressed at some point.

 

Having said that, to be fair, Falcon4 has been around for 10+ years and the AI still has issues.

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Hmm, so I have to control the entire battle space? That's a bit lame. I was just looking for a combat flight simulator (just me and my wingman), not a strategic sim!

 

Have you actually tried it, or are you just calling it lame based on your assumption of how it works? It's hardly a strategic sim, you just tell the friendly flights when you want them to push from their IP's, and they do the rest, competently finding and prosecuting targets on their own.

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The planes flying CAP are useless. There's no way CAS should have to actually call on CAP to come fire on an aircraft when:

 

a) they have radars and the CAS plane doesn't; and

 

b) the sole objective of their mission is to take out enemy planes.

 

It's like CAS expecting CAP planes to spot the ground targets for them.

 

You can always tell them to push right away, then go in after they've swept the area.

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Have you actually tried it, or are you just calling it lame based on your assumption of how it works? It's hardly a strategic sim, you just tell the friendly flights when you want them to push from their IP's, and they do the rest, competently finding and prosecuting targets on their own.

 

Don't be a fanboi, its obviously stupid. Its hard enough for people who are new to this whole study flight sim thing to learn the basics of just starting up and taking off then handling the DSMS and SOI and SPI etc, but then to have to actually figure out that you have to assume the role of the theatre air commander. Its just there's so much stuff to figure out and plenty of things that just don't work properly that when you finally load into the Eagle Dynamics provided missions you scratch your heard cause... well you're doing all the stuff you read in the manual but the manual doesn't really say "BTW, F-16s and F-15Es don't do anything unless you tell them" etc.

 

There's a lot of trial and error in this game when you're learning it, and to have to cope with even more obtuse mission space management concepts that are essentially work arounds for borked unfinished AI suites... yea its annoying.

 

I just get annoyed when people give new people hell cause they haven't played the sim for 2 years and internalized every little quirk as if its normal. Its not obvious, thats a fact. There are LOTS of polished games out there, but this one we come for the niche depth. Its to be expected its not going to be as finished as the lame mainstream games with no depth, but its still worth noting that a lack of polish is not a feature, its an issue.

 

For heaven's sake we play missions with JTACs on Type 1 where they have to clear you HOT and guide you in but when it comes to SEAD we're expected to manage guys who wouldn't even talk to us in real life. Its dumb and we should tell that to new people, get it out of the way, and instruct them on the established work arounds.

 

I read about how in some missions you should just delete the SAMs cause the latest patch broke the scripting on the SEAD. I mean... jeeze. Thats not in the manual and not everyone wants to have to lurk on a message board to play a game that takes 10 to 15 minutes to do a proper text book ramp start!

 

It is lame, we all know this. Just because we say this won't mean that ED will suddenly throw their arms up, wail like some teen age girls, and rage quit from the internet never to put out another patch.

 

*phew*

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I have never noticed ANY mission where I had to micromanage SEAD or CAP packages. Ever.

 

Yes, you have to (in some missions) tell the CAP/ SEAD when to push from their IPs. That's about it.

 

And yes, it is entirely realistic. Air Force missions are almost never flown as a single-flight mission, they're flown as packages. So in DCS: A-10, the package is tasked to CAS. SEAD and CAP flights are then attached to the primary flight (the one doing the CAS: the A-10s).

 

YOU are the package commander, as the CAS flight lead. So yes, you DO have to order the CAP and SEAD assigned to your package.

 

If it makes it easier to accept, think of it this way: when you use the F10 menu to call CAS and SEAD, you aren't actually getting on the radio and saying "hey, CAS, go attack enemy aircraft" and "hey, SEAD, blow up some SAMs". You are actually saying "this is Tusk 2-2, pushing waypoint 3." All you're doing is letting the rest of the package know you're in position and that they can start doing their assigned tasks.

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After playing with the menus etc in game, it did become apparent that I had to instruct various elements to push from IP. First time round, I thought 'how am I going to wreck this place with nobody but me on station - and Winchester to boot!' Then the Menus all made sense once I explored them.

 

True, I had assumed that the strategic stuff was all managed by the AI (like in F4) but this system actually makes reasonable sense (once the penny drops!).

 

Cheers. :)

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I noticed last night in the first of the standalone missions that I was doing all the work. Doesn't friendly AI kill anything? They might as well not have been there.

 

Be aware that this is entirely in the hands of the mission designer. They could just as easily set up the CAP for your air assets instead of you calling them in. Personally, I think it's a nice touch that I can call for aid if I want/need it.

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I have never noticed ANY mission where I had to micromanage SEAD or CAP packages. Ever.

 

And yes, it is entirely realistic. Air Force missions are almost never flown as a single-flight mission, they're flown as packages. So in DCS: A-10, the package is tasked to CAS. SEAD and CAP flights are then attached to the primary flight (the one doing the CAS: the A-10s).

 

YOU are the package commander, as the CAS flight lead. So yes, you DO have to order the CAP and SEAD assigned to your package.

In the very first mission (CSAR) the CAP planes just allow Su-25s to come in and engage you whilst you're concentrating on protecting the downed pilot and avoiding ground fire. That's totally shit CAP, they may as well just stay back at base and stop wasting allied fuel reserves.

 

I don't believe for one second that's how it works in real life unless you can provide a written and signed letter from NATO command. Seriously? The planes with long range radar wait for CAS planes to eye-ball airborne threats and tell them about it. Are you sure the CAP planes/AWACS wouldn't even think to mention the closing enemy fighters? Not much point in even having an AWACS in that case.

 

FFS, AWFCASTES (Airborne Wait For CAS To Eyeball Surveillance).:megalol: If NATO really operate that way, which I strongly doubt they do, then they're the dumbest mother****ers who've ever walked the Earth.:megalol:

 

Are you being sarcastic here? SEAD send a slow moving A-10 in first to point out the SAMs for them, even though they have the planes and specialist equipment for detecting the threats? Funny, because in 1991 I remember things happened the exact opposite way round.

 

Hey this is Tusk 1-1 at the exact ****ing position you can see me on your scope, please start doing the job you are already supposed to be doing. Oh and I'd prefer if you told me about airborne threats at 50km rather than waiting for them to arrive on my six. And hey, next time I'm supposed to be running operational command, can I have one of those dishes with the radio waves coming out?


Edited by marcos
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This is an interesting topic.

 

From a neutral point of view it seems to me a matter of the "Leader Mentality". Most who play this game and similar games, want to control

the action. The individual who developed the mission was intending to give you the option of Blowing the Heck out of everything that moved or allowing you to give orders and watch the fireworks as you command your package.

 

I like the option to control the package, or when I am feeling decadent and desire to rain hell down upon my emanies, I do so. Some days I wake up and just want to watch the action. But I would have it no other way than the option to do eigther.

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@marcos, no. For example CSAR an A-10 would be OSC. Therefore he would tell the CAP aircraft when he is ready to go in rather than letting them go in ahead and do their own thing. The OSC manages a rescue. (How it's described in A-10's over Kosovo anyway) and if I understand what OutOnTheOp is saying.

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@marcos, no. For example CSAR an A-10 would be OSC. Therefore he would tell the CAP aircraft when he is ready to go in rather than letting them go in ahead and do their own thing. The OSC manages a rescue. (How it's described in A-10's over Kosovo anyway) and if I understand what OutOnTheOp is saying.

I can't believe that. There's an AWACS and F-15s cruising the stratosphere, are they really just going to sit there and ignore everything without saying a word while enemy fighters close on an aircraft that doesn't have a radar. That kind of callousness provides close competition for friendly fire.

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I can't believe that. There's an AWACS and F-15s cruising the stratosphere, are they really just going to sit there and ignore everything without saying a word while enemy fighters close on an aircraft that doesn't have a radar. That kind of callousness provides close competition for friendly fire.

 

No, they are not. However this is why we have pilots and not PC game AI flying aircraft in the real world. The AI in the sim will only do what they are told, and even then, they don't react like a competent human would.

 

But as far as what OutontheOP said regarding mission/package command, he is absolutely right. But also, as you point out other assets don't wait for the package commander to tell them to deal with, or at least communicate a threat. But again, the AI don't (and likely never will) be as 'smart' as a human in that regard.


Edited by Eddie

 

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No, they are not. However this is why we have pilots and not PC game AI flying aircraft in the real world. The AI in the sim will only do what they are told, and even then, they don't react like a competent human would.

 

But as far as what OutontheOP said regarding mission/package command, he is absolutely right. But also, as you point out other assets don't wait for the package commander to tell them to deal with, or at least communicate a threat. But again, the AI don't (and likely never will) be as 'smart' as a human in that regard.

That's what I figured.:)

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