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Help me get her in the air


Skall
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Hi everyone,

 

First time posting. Short intro: I'm pretty new to flight sims but have always been interested in them. The little I know about aviation has been by reading and asking questions here and there. I'm looking forward to being a part of this community and hope that I can find some guidance.

 

Recently bought A-10C and, while I'm enjoying learning how to work the plane, the thing is so complex it will be a while until I can fly it regularly. Decided to purchase P-51D to learn something with a few less switches and dials to get off the ground with until I can tame the hog.

 

The training missions have been fairly helpful if not a bit confusing. For a few procedures, the manual says one thing but the training missions say something else. My problem is with take-off. I can't seem to get off the ground consistently without turning into a fiery wreck and, when I do get off the ground, I'm flying in all directions except upwind.

 

So here are my questions:

 

1. For take-off, manual says to go from idle to 60MP but training mission says hold brakes until 30MP then steadily go to 50MP after reaching 50MPH. Which is correct?

 

2. I know I shouldn't slam the throttle but how fast should I go from 0-60MP or 30-50MP? I find that if I do it too slow (over the course of 5-10 seconds), I start bouncing and skidding all over the place and wind up very dead but if I do it over the course of about 3-4 seconds I end up taking off but usually pointing to the left of the runway.

 

Funny thing is I have a much easier time landing her than taking off. I was able to land her on my own even before watching/doing the landing mission just by glancing at the manual and seeing the gears, flaps, final, landing and touchdown speeds (170, 160, 150, 120-112, 90). The worst landing I've done has been a nasty bounce. Most of my take-offs, however, end in fiery death.

 

Thanks for the help.

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Recently bought A-10C and, while I'm enjoying learning how to work the plane, the thing is so complex it will be a while until I can fly it regularly. Decided to purchase P-51D to learn something with a few less switches and dials to get off the ground with until I can tame the hog.
The question is, yes, she've less dials and systems, but she's way harder to fly as the real thing :).

 

 

For taking off the easiest way I found while learning is follow RAF Mustag III manual I bought last Duxford (pretty similar, but have a bunch of tips and hints). That's, as you are taking-off from a long enough and concrete runway and not a grass field even at full load you don't need at all go to max military power (60" - 3000rpm), but max continuous power is enough, that's 46" manifold pressure and 2700rpm (you can get 2700rpm with pitch lever slightly behind white marks on pitch lever base). You are plenty of power and don't need more until you master her. And second and even more important, line-up runway properly before take-off run, don't use 5º right rudder trim as said in videos but 0º, nose pitch 2º forward, put power not very fast but at one time from iddle to 46 inches without doubts or messing around with throttle, and the thing, hold slightly back stick while running. That will make three things, first that locks tail wheel so you'll manage torque better (but still you will have to be quick on pedals), two, that will prevent tail to raise from ground, that's the moment were you feel she starts going side to side of the runway because torque affects you all at once (when you master her you can raise tail but not until 70mph at least), and third and as is stated in RAF manual, if you keep that until 100mph at least (no flaps) that will make you take-off in a three point attitude far easier than raising tail and will let you manage torque easily. You'll have to keep pressure in stick until she speeds up, but will get you airborne without further problems.

 

As said, that'll not prevent you from being profuse in pedal use (it's better to make quick movements one side to other all the time), but torque will not affect you as much as raising tail. Keep and eye on aircraft attitude, and you'll realize that when she gets nervous and finally crash is because you raised tail soon, so keep tail on ground!!

 

Try that and let us know :smilewink:.

 

S!


Edited by Ala13_ManOWar

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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The training mission is training and has you stick with 50"mp because it's a bit easier at first. The best takeoff I've learned once getting some practice is to do it exactly like the manual says. Read it carefully. You want max power on takeoff and it especially helps if there's a crosswind. Speed equals control. Exactly what the manual says is to reach 61" and 3000 rpms as quickly as possible once the roll has started but not to jam the throttle forward. You want to reach full power before hitting about 50mph since trying to add power once lifting off leads to instability.

Set 5-6 d of right rudder trim exactly like the manual says. Hold down the brake, advance the throttle to 30" prop on full increase. Then release the brake and smoothly but not jarringly push the throttle forward. Hold the tail down till you approach but not after 100 mph. Smoothly push the stick forward and you're airborne.

Here's an example

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  • ED Team

The main advise is not to react to the plane directional deviation but ANTICIPATE it.

As the plane rotates nose down apply right rudder and be ready to quickly release it or even perform a very short left rudder as the rotation stopped and the plane is at 2-point attitude.

 

To react faster add clouds to the mission for visual reference.

 

Any power setting is good - 60" gives you better control and makes potentially dangerous time period shorter but you have to deal with more torque and P-factor.

 

And the last hint: if you can not hold direction even following all these advices - feel free to use TO assistant in options. It's not a cheat. It is your virtual instructor input or something instead of acceleration feeling in RL. As you getting better in TO you can gradually decrease TO assistant authority using a slider in the options.

 

5 degree right rudder trim gives you correct trim for initial climb but it's useful at TO run. Not compulsory though...


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Thanks for the advice. Sorry I haven't been around. I live in NJ and hurricane sandy killed power in the area shortly after i made my post. Just got power back a few hours ago.

 

Ill try some of the suggestions once things die down here a little.

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With things somewhat getting back to normal and not being able to go to work due to all the power outages and flooding, I've put a fair bit of time in practicing my take-offs and am getting much better results.

 

Looking back, my mistakes were:

 

1. Throttling to full open too slowly. Slow throttling was making my plane very unstable and made it hop all over. I now steadily go to full in about 2-3 seconds as opposed to the 6-8 I used to before.

 

2. Holding the stick too far aft. I guess to lock the tail you only need a bit of aft movement. I was going too far aft and that made the plane want to jump before it picked up enough speed.

 

3. Taking Yo-Yo's advice, I started anticipating right rudder input instead of reacting. I still get a bit sloppy on when the tail goes up but its much better than before.

 

My take-offs can still stand to be a bit cleaner but I'm consistently not dying anymore, which is a good start.

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  • ED Team

Yes, the hurricane was unbelievable... it was very scary to see what unlimted power of the atmosphere can do with the civilisation,

 

A little advice at TO is to gradually move the stick from the full aft position as you gain the speed to avoid the effect you mentioned. Having it full aft helps to load the tailwheel as you commensing TO run. As you put the stick in the pre-trimmed position the tail raises itself as the speed is sufficient.

 

THe second advice to make TO run straight is to react not to deviation from the straight line but to its velocity. It means that you must apply more right rudder as the plane nose is in the desired direction but having left yaw velocity rather than it is already left from it.


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Thanks again Yo-Yo, I'll try what you mentioned with the stick but I'm losing you on the yaw bit. I always start with some right rudder and ease up as the plane gets faster as I was under the assumption that the faster the speed, the more control the flight surfaces have. Should I be increasing my right rudder instead?

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  • ED Team
Thanks again Yo-Yo, I'll try what you mentioned with the stick but I'm losing you on the yaw bit. I always start with some right rudder and ease up as the plane gets faster as I was under the assumption that the faster the speed, the more control the flight surfaces have. Should I be increasing my right rudder instead?

 

No-no! You are doing all right. My second advice concerned the period you have raised the tail and the plane can seem trying to control you... :) rather than vice-versa.

 

Having the tailwheel on the ground you have almost no problems. AS you can see the problems begin when the plane begins to encounter forces and moments that are dependable on its attitude. Gyro, P-factor, etc.

 

I like this plane... it does not allow to relax as you taking off or landing. Though you can do it in Su-25, A-10 or even in Ka-50 eating a sandwich you never can do it in P-51. :) Any time you think that you can do something against the rules or even release your concentration she can punish you.


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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No-no! You are doing all right. My second advice concerned the period you have raised the tail and the plane can seem trying to control you... :) rather than vice-versa.

 

Having the tailwheel on the ground you have almost no problems. AS you can see the problems begin when the plane begins to encounter forces and moments that are dependable on its attitude. Gyro, P-factor, etc.

 

I like this plane... it does not allow to relax as you taking off or landing. Though you can do it in Su-25, A-10 or even in Ka-50 eating a sandwich you never can do it in P-51. :) Any time you think that you can do something against the rules or even release your concentration she can punish you.

 

I see what you mean, I'll try exerting more rudder at the moment the tail lifts. You are definitely right that this is a plane you have to learn to respect. If you are too reckless or careless you will surely pay.

 

As I transition from take-offs and landings to combat and navigation, I'm starting to realize that some of the punishment is delayed. Once I had the engine seize on me mid-flight and I still haven't figured out why (I'm not playing with bird strikes at the moment) and another time I ran out of gas when only a few hundred feet above the ground. I didn't notice it at the time but when I replayed the track, I was able to pause it and take my time looking around. Sure enough, fuel pressure read 0 and the left tank was empty :doh:

 

Too bad I can't play the challenge campaign. I have the same issue a lot of people with Windows 8 are having with the missions crashing to desktop on exit and the campaign state is not saved.

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