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Too bad there's no throttle...

 

Yeah, its actually a pretty nice stick. It looks like its also programmable, in kind of an old Mark I type of way. If it came with a throttle for around $75, I might consider it.

 

I also wish Saitek would get a clue, and come out with something that actually resembles a real flight stick.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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Yeah, its actually a pretty nice stick. It looks like its also programmable, in kind of an old Mark I type of way. If it came with a throttle for around $75, I might consider it.

 

I also wish Saitek would get a clue, and come out with something that actually resembles a real flight stick.

 

Umm....the x65 is from Saitek, and does resemble a real flight stick.

 

 

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Umm....the x65 is from Saitek, and does resemble a real flight stick.

 

Oops. Forgot about that one. Yeah, the price on that one isn't too bad, though I think its still a tad high. I like the stick, though I don't like at all that its stiff like the F16 stick (which is what I think is bringing its sales down). And I don't care too much for the throttle hats, though I admit they might be more "general" in usage.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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$50 bucks. And it appears to have HALL SENSORS!

Don´t really see the connection here. Hall sensors are dirt cheap and anything but special.

 

Little anecdote if I may: The other day my dad was over at my place for a visit. He recently retired and has been an engineer for all his life, mostly doing automotive and aerospace stuff. When he saw my TM WH he grabbed it and said it was quite nice, felt good, nothing like the usual plastic sticks etc. Now, him being the engineer that he is, he wanted to know the technical details of the TM WH, so I handed him the box that it came in.

 

He read all the advertisement mumbo-jumbo on the side of it, and when he came to the bullet point saying "With hall sensors!!!!!!!!11oneeleven" he actually burst out laughing. I asked him what´s so funny about hall sensors, after all it´s quite a selling point for TM. He looked at me and said it´s as if Porsche would advertise their new car by saying "comes with a steering wheel!"

 

I said something to the effect of "wtf are you talking about?", and he said of course a joystick would have hall sensors, and it cracked him up to see it as something they would print on the box. Of course I was like "but they say it´s the latest and greatest, everyone praises it for having hall sensors", to which my dad just replied "well, what else would they put in there? Potentiometers?", and I said "ummm... yeah."

 

My dad then had one of those moments where you realize your interlocutor is not bs´ing you but actually means what he says. His eyes became quite wide, and he said "wait a minute, are you telling me other manufacturers really do put potentiometers in there?". When I said they do, he was just mumbling something about this not being 1970 anymore, and wtf they must be smoking to use such an antiquated technology. He really couldn´t believe it.

 

To this day he always jokes about starting up a company producing sim hardware, and how the single biggest thing he would print on the backside of every unit would be "MADE IN GERMANY", just so everyone knows it´s actually properly engineered. :D

- Two miles of road lead nowhere, two miles of runway lead everywhere -

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Lol, your dad sounds cool! Maybe he can ridicule TM into actually lowering there price to somewhere near where it should be, like $150. Then the "masses" could maybe actually afford it. And then we might actually get some players in this sim, more than the 4 or so I saw online this afternoon.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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I also wish Saitek would get a clue, and come out with something that actually resembles a real flight stick.

 

That I agree with, and the problem with the X65 is it that I prefer the old-school stick travel.

ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P

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Lol, your dad sounds cool! Maybe he can ridicule TM into actually lowering there price to somewhere near where it should be, like $150. Then the "masses" could maybe actually afford it. And then we might actually get some players in this sim, more than the 4 or so I saw online this afternoon.

 

You do realize that they have sold over 10,000 of them. So there should be more than four being used by DCS players. ;)

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10,000 isn't much, even in this day and age. If they would lower their price so the masses could afford it, they could sell many times that and get a lot more profit. And sadly, yeah, there were only 4 players online this afternoon. We've got to do something to promote this sim more. I'm for adding FPS, better terrain, and giving ARMA some good competition. THAT would bring in players, and some of them would even get interested in realistic flight simulation.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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10,000 isn't much, even in this day and age.

I beg to differ. 10,000 (actually it´s more like 15,000 already I believe) is no small number for such highly specialized hardware. Also, contrary to you I do believe the TM WH is worth every single penny. Just because hall sensors are dirt cheap and not really something one would want to advertise nowadays doesn´t mean the rest of the stick (and throttle) is not of very high quality.

 

Thrustmaster is to be applauded to take the risk of developing, producing and marketing a stick like this. I´m sure it was not a cheap endavour on their part and it was a bit of a gambling move to make a high-quality stick that can only be used for one single aircraft really. They put all their money on the A-10C of DCS becoming a success. Had it tanked, sales for the TM WH probably wouldn´t even have been a quarter of what they are now.

 

Again, from a business point of view Thrustmaster took so many risks with this product, it just boggles your mind. Part of that risk is being put straight onto the price tag, and I for one don´t have a problem with that. It´s a business decision TM made, and I understand why they made it.

 

Last but not least, they are a company and can price their product any way they see fit. You live in a free country (I hope) and can choose whether to buy it or not for that price. If you think the price is alright, you buy the product. If you think the price is ridiculous, you move on. Simple as that. Vote with your wallet, the company will get the message eventually - if enough people think like you. If the company does not get the message and sells their product happily instead, it may mean there are not enough people thinking like you.

 

Personally, I believe products from Volkswagen are ridiculously overpriced for what they offer (in my country at least) and I would never ever buy one. Yet one of their models is the best selling car over here year after year, so I guess a couple million people do not share my view in this matter. Does it give me sleepless nights? Not really. Am I running around, telling owners of a VW how they have been ripped off? Not really. Do said owners care about my opinion? Not really. Obviously they are happy with the product, so who am I to tell them they made a wrong choice?

- Two miles of road lead nowhere, two miles of runway lead everywhere -

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Your argument is still invalid.

The Warthog (and Cougar) was never meant to be a mass market product.

 

Neither was DCS.

 

Well, that ancient line of thought isn't going to do this sim any good. Especially in this economy. Most of us don't have the jobs we used to anymore.

 

I can barely afford sims like DCS. $500 for a joystick is not only out of the question for me, its out of the question for the majority of sim and fps players.

 

Hopefully, someone comes out with a decent HOTAS in the $100 range. Then I might actually be able lure in some fellow FPS players.

 

If only the rich can afford this sim, its doomed. Only 4 players online = dead game. Not to mention they were spread over 4 servers.


Edited by Wolfie

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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Then I might actually be able lure in some fellow FPS players.

 

Therein lies part of your problem. DCS is not and hopefully never will be an FPS.

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Maybe he can ridicule TM into actually lowering there price to somewhere near where it should be, like $150.

 

Serious question: do you know what the Bill Of Materials is for the TM Hog? You seem to know since you're able to suggest a price. :) There is of course an important difference between what is a good and proper price for a product, and what a specific individual wants to pay for it.

 

$150 dollars is just over what newegg charges for the X-52 Pro (which is discounted from it's $199 RRP). X-65F is $332.

 

Now, they could probably get the price down through selecting downmarket materials - all this steel doesn't come cheap. But it would also make the product a lot less attractive for me - I love the solid feel of this steel and would have paid a little more if they had used that for the throttle levers themselves. Had it been plastic I would quite possibly have stayed with my plasticky X-52.

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Sure, we all want a good product. But what it comes down too is what the masses can afford. $500 is up there in the range of the 1%'s.

 

The majority of the world is down in the $50 to $150 range. And therein lies the problem. I watch the sales on Ebay for the Warthog. They're stagnate. Nothing sells. Yet they keep the prices up. Bad business in my opinion. You would think they would lower the prices to get some sales going. The TM can be used for a lot more than just DCS.

 

DCS software prices are affordable. Unfortunately, its everything else that isn't, and that's why there's only 4 players online last time I checked.

 

As for FPS players ( the majority of all online players ), there's good percentage of them that like flying. They just have to be introduced to realistic flight sims. But they're not going to come unless there is FPS in the game. A lot of ARMA vets would come over if this sim had good FPS.

 

Not meaning to piss anyone off, just pointing out some problems.


Edited by Wolfie

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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There is stand-alone throttle, designed and developed by the same man, but under different lable, coast around 40$ here. Some shops sells them together as bundle for ~100$. img593_15897.jpg

 

Thanks man! I may take a look at that.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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Well thats what it was this afternoon, as far as my browser was showing. I think there were like 6 servers up, and about 4 players over 4 servers.

 

This was on DCS World, so maybe there's more on the older stand alones.

 

Made me feel kind of sick.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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But what it comes down too is what the masses can afford. $500 is up there in the range of the 1%'s.

 

 

Perhaps TM is not interested in what the 'masses' can afford. ;)

 

Btw, I would love to see your source for the statistic that all Warthog owners are in the top 1% income bracket.

ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:

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If you can afford $500 for a joystick, believe me, the masses think your well up there. ;)

 

And yeah, TM probably doesn't give a shit, though I really don't how their making much money with seemingly stagnant sales.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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Wolfie, even if it is priced for the 1%ers (it isn't but meh), you have to realize that that's a market too. Should Rolex stop making expensive timekeepers just because not everyone can afford them?

 

The market allows both. If TM cheapened it enough to afford selling at a low price, it would be too long until someone else went after that slice of the market. (Saitek has eyeballs on it already with it's X-65F, but didn't quite dare go the distance.)

 

That is the fundamental problem in your assumptions here - you're saying it's either/or, but you forget that Thrustmaster has joystick products starting at the $25 price point. No, not as feature-rich or well-built as the hogstick, but there is a reason for that. ;) So if you want something cheaper, there's cheap stuff to buy from Thrustmaster too.

 

I really do like the looks of these VKB sticks though. Definitely better looking than Saitek's stuff. Time for a replica Flanker stick! :D

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If you can afford $500 for a joystick, believe me, the masses think your well up there. ;)

 

Fff, 500 dollars... Converted from my currency, I paid ~650 dollars for mine. :P (But I live in an expensive country with 25% VAT on top.)

 

And really, it's all about the choices you make. I don't drive, so I don't have car insurance, gas, repairs etcetera to cover. I don't have an expensive mortgage, and I don't have children. (My only dependents are two cats, and since they spend most of the year catching their own food they don't cost much :P ) Affording a 500 dollar stick is, at that point, fairly simple.

 

Another question for you is: does everyone that have an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy belong up there? Because it costs less than one of those phones. Skip smartphone = you now afford one of these. Etcetera. All just about choices. If other choices or other circumstances deny sanely purchasing a stick like this, well, then it's good that there's people like this russian company as well as Saitek that produce cheaper HOTAS solutions. That's what the market is like.

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

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Yeah, they're not too bad looking. Just wish the throttle was better.

 

Totally agreed, and I'd love a 2-piece throttle instead of the single-piece as well. Easier to "convert" a dual throttle to single-throttle than the opposite. (Another awesome thing with the TM Hog, tbh: the magnetic lock that let you turn the two throttles into a unit whenever appropriate.)

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

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