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Trim bugged out


doveman
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If I bank say 5 degrees and click Trim, I see the in-cockpit joystick jump further in the direction I'm holding it, resulting in the helo banking 10-15 degrees instead of the 5 I had it at when I clicked Trim.

 

I've got it set to Central Trimmer mode (I've tried both) and I've tried resetting the Axis Tune settings to default, as advised in another thread but that hasn't helped.

 

So basically a major part of flying the BS appears to be not working, which is pretty bad I think.

 

The only way I can fly is to hold Trim, adjust my heading and pitch to the desired point and then release Trim but I find this very fiddly as obviously whilst I'm holding Trim the autopilot is disengaged, making it very twitchy and if I'm just trying to bank, the nose will pitch up and I'll have to fight/correct that as well.

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If you bank the helo 5 degrees and press/release trim BEFORE the helo has stabilized in flight, you will get results like you are describiing.

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If I bank say 5 degrees and click Trim.....

 

You need to have hit the trim button at least 5 times for that 5 degrees of trim.

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If you bank the helo 5 degrees and press/release trim BEFORE the helo has stabilized in flight, you will get results like you are describiing.

 

OK, thanks. I'll try again and make sure it's stable before pressing/releasing Trim.

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You need to have hit the trim button at least 5 times for that 5 degrees of trim.

 

OK, thanks. I only gave 5 degrees as an example but I'll test to check how much I'm banking and press/release trim once per degree.

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Turn central trimmer mode off, then do the hold move and release you have already tried, I find it to be the easiest way to fly by far. You'll get used to it. Sometimes I hold the trim on for long periods while I get the attitude and speed it want.

 

Yeah, I could do that and I have found it easier than the other method but I'd like to try and use it properly (i.e. the Russian way) if I can find a way to stop it overtrimming.

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I usually fly in FD mode. For me it is much easier to fly with the FD than to fly with the autopilot.

The only time I switch the FD off and the AP on is when I do some testing of a mission and need to skip some time during the flight of a longer route to or from the target area.

I can't maneuver with the AP on, I tend to oversteer or understeer. The FD gives me the controllability I need for save flight without giving me the feeling that I need to look where the helicopter is crashing into in the next seconds.

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Well I tried both methods, i.e. waiting for it to stablise and constantly clicking whilst banking small amounts. I don't think the first method made any difference. With the second method, I think the stick was not always twitching after I clicked, so maybe that helped but the problem is I'm barely able to adjust the heading that way, as to click every degree of bank means I have to bank very slowly to be able to do that, so if I actually want to make a meaningful change of heading, I'd have to bank harder which would make it impossible to click once for every degree of bank, particularly if I have to wait for the helo to stabilise before every click of Trim.

 

I made a short track of my tests. I only really got to trying the rapid-clicking method towards the end, shortly before I crashed, which was because I forgot to centre the stick and therefore it was locked out! As I say though, having to bank a tiny amount, wait to stablise, click Trim, centre stick, repeat ad finitum does get rather confusing when you're trying to turn at anything other than a snail's pace.

 

I adjusted the view to show the stick and you can see how it twitches after I click Trim and as a result the helo banks/pitches to some heading of it's own choosing.

 

Perhaps someone else could make a short track demonstrating how to use Trim properly, as that will help me to see how much I should be able to bank (or adjust the glide angle) and how frequently I should be clicking Trim during the bank (assuming that my track doesn't show that there's actually a bug).

Trimming2.trk

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Easy as easy.

 

1) Press and hold trim

2) Do what you gotta do

3) Release trim

 

...aaaand presto! The chopper stays where you put it, more or less. I've always done it like this and it has always worked, so cannot see where the problem lies exactly :) Or did I miss something?


Edited by msalama

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Or did I miss something?

 

 

*Don't trim at all.

 

If you are engaged defensive/engaged in combat maneuvering then there is no real reason to trim at all - why would you want to?

 

*For non-FFB users

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The only way I can fly is to hold Trim, etc...

 

Ach, sorry, just really read your post there. This however is how it works the best (at least for me), so how about anticipating what the beast will do in different situations and just get used to do it like that?

 

Not being facetious, BTW, just airing my opinions on how it SEEMS to work best :)

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If you are engaged defensive/engaged in combat maneuvering then there is no real reason to trim at all

 

Bah, I'll just hold the button down even then b/c it's n:o 2 on the stick so it's directly under my thumb anyway.

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Ach, sorry, just really read your post there. This however is how it works the best (at least for me), so how about anticipating what the beast will do in different situations and just get used to do it like that?

 

Not being facetious, BTW, just airing my opinions on how it SEEMS to work best :)

 

That's how it works best (in fact the only way it works) for me too but the point is this is meant to be a sim and it seems as if there's a bug that's making the stick twitch after I press Trim, which is causing it to oversteer quite badly. If the real KA-50 works like this, I can't understand how pilots could use Trim the correct (i.e. Russian) way so either there is a bug, which needs fixing, or I just don't get how to use it this way and I need someone to show me.

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If the real KA-50 works like this, I can't understand how pilots could use Trim the correct (i.e. Russian) way so either there is a bug, which needs fixing, or I just don't get how to use it this way and I need someone to show me.

 

This is a lot of information but I found it helpful...might have some trim suggestions in there as well.:)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=36246&highlight=BS+Auto+Pilot+description+operation

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My process of maintaining level flight with trim is as follows;

 

1. Take off.

2. Fly to your desired Heading, Altitude, and air Speed and maintain it.

3. While maintaining HAS, press the trim button and immediately release the stick for a second.

4. At this point, your sharky should still be flying off course so you will need to take control with the stick and go back to step two. After a few times, you will release the stick and no further correction will required.

 

If you touch the cyclic, your trimming will loose affect. If the wind direction changes, you will loose your trim.

 

Sometimes I like to click the reset trim button, like if I want to prepare to hover and use cover. When you do this the first few times, do it with a decent altitude as it will feel like a bucking bronco. Once you know what to expect, you can pre-counter the effect with the stick.

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This is a lot of information but I found it helpful...might have some trim suggestions in there as well.:)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=36246&highlight=BS+Auto+Pilot+description+operation

 

Thanks. I've seen that before and it's very helpful to understand the various features of the AutoPilot but doesn't explain why the stick is twitching and oversteering the helo when I click Trim. Hopefully someone who has it working properly can make a track or video to demonstrate it.

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This is a track of my flying. You should hear one click as I hold trim then one as I release later.

 

Great thanks. I'll study that later :thumbup:

 

EDIT: OK, I watched that and that was some nice flying. :thumbup:

 

However, you seem to be using the American (Click and hold whilst manoeuvring) Trim method, whereas what I'm looking for is a demonstration of how to use the Russian (brief click(s) after adjusting pitch/yaw) Trim method without the stick twitching when clicking Trim and the helo oversteering as a result.


Edited by doveman

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I found this explanation by Froogle to be quite concise regarding trim behavior. Helped me tremendously!!

 

 

Thanks, that's a useful video that does show the lurching when using the Russian method. I don't know if that happens in the real bird though and if so, how they manage to use it.

 

I didn't really understand his explanation that because the AP has 20% authority it causes it to lurch 20% beyond the direction the helo is pointing when clicking Trim.

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Are you flying with Force Feedback?

 

Are you using a G940?

 

I am absolutely sure that you are.

 

It is late. I will come on later tommorrow and tell you what is going on if you confirm it is a Force Feedback stick and offer steps to minimize the problem.


Edited by ZQuickSilverZ

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My guess is an X-52. The solution is simple and worked for me - adjust the joystick curves. For some reason "bumps" occur when you maneuver too rapidly (and in Kamov's dictionary, "rapidly" apparently means anything quicker than a doped turtle).

 

With smother curves the, banking, pitching etc is done in a more relaxed fashion, that is what the trimmer system likes. Not really sure why it's like this, I would assume the real cyclic stick requires a lot more pressure than a joystick.

 

One thing though, make sure to not smoothen the initial curve too much since that will cause the later curve to be very steep and this will cause serious precision issues with the Ka-50 and lead to erratic flight behavior. Than again, this will also force you to use smaller inputs and trim more often. You can also loose the final part of the axis curve altogether - you don't really need to yank the stick all the way with central trimmer position option (unless you actually own a G940).

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I'm using a Thrustmaster Hotas X http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_UK/products/tflight-hotas-x

 

I normally have the sensitivity set to about 20 for a slight curve but tried it reset to defaults after someone suggested there might be a bug that causes this problem with anything other than defaults but it didn't make any difference.

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