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Russian hud why no flight path vector?


CoBlue
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Been searching the net for this answer but no luck.

Why does Russian planes don't have an flight path vector on the HUD? What disadvantage does the FPV have? & how were the Russian engineers thinking about this matter? Any insights?

Thanx!

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It's because having a little circle that bobs around the centre point of the HUD makes the pilots fly in a less predictable manner, which helps them avoid AAA fire.

 

Are you serious?

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Indeed, lack of Flight Path Marker (FPM) on Russian HUD's is a surprise to me as well. Flying with FPM is more accurate. Although the less cluttered the HUD the better it is.

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How about the really modern ones, like Su-30MKI and such? Same HUD layout? I see that they do upgrade the HUD symbology, like the Su-25 Scorpion HUD is different from the 25T...

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Modern looks quite different, at leas those ones, that supposed to be part of India's mig-29k.

OMG those are cluttered! Especially the first one. Is it some kind of demo-mode where they put everything in there all at once? And no, there doesnt seem to be a FPM there, only the little arrow on the right side of the HUD...?

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There will always be bugs. If everything is a priority nothing is.

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Is it some kind of demo-mode where they put everything in there all at once? And no, there doesnt seem to be a FPM there, only the little arrow on the right side of the HUD...?

Probably. I guess you can find fpm blinking on the right, not sure.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=72706&stc=1&d=1351872879

 

And another shot of 29kub landing. Obscure, but there is one definitely.

And first frame from the vid:

attachment.php?attachmentid=72707&stc=1&d=1351872925

2341.jpg.b407b25108cd1cde0926aed9fc06b8d9.jpg

425.jpg.24af2234b8dc0b0a6b9d4766afa656d5.jpg

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If you are manily trained for instrument flight, without looking outside of the cockpit, than velocity vector is not needed that much.

"Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин

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Ноет в небе самолетик,

Ноют клумбы и кусты -

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If you are manily trained for instrument flight, without looking outside of the cockpit, than velocity vector is not needed that much.

Was that the reason the "early" Russian huds didn't have FPV?.

I always thought Russian Airforce embraced Close Air Combat & isn't FPV an advantage then?....maybe I'm wrong:)

Anyway seems that the "new" Russian huds have FPV....but still wondering why the "old" ones didn't? Like in this vid

from 2008.

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As proof of why the FPV is better look at the DCS Su-25T training clips. The trainer basically says to use the autopilot for route following because it does a far better job than trying to do it manually. He then shows it being done manually and makes a pig's ear of it.

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Was that the reason the "early" Russian huds didn't have FPV?.

Don't think so. But vector would create some problems, cause it works with direct attitude symbology, while in SU the reversed attitude symology was common.

....but still wondering why the "old" ones didn't? Like in this vid
from 2008.

Su-25SM is not old. It is from 00s.

"Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин

Ноет котик, ноет кротик,



Ноет в небе самолетик,

Ноют клумбы и кусты -

Ноют все. Поной и ты.

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If you are manily trained for instrument flight, without looking outside of the cockpit, than velocity vector is not needed that much.

 

Not entirely true. It's an excellent cue. There is a reason why modern HUD systems for transport category aircraft all utilize a flight path vector... it's better technology. Russia traditionally has horrible avionics and ergonomics, although they're starting to join the "new wave."

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As proof of why the FPV is better look at the DCS Su-25T training clips. The trainer basically says to use the autopilot for route following because it does a far better job than trying to do it manually. He then shows it being done manually and makes a pig's ear of it.

 

That doesn't mean an FPV will make a crap pilot into a good pilot. I would suggest that if you can't fly it without the FPV, you can't really fly it with one.

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Other then landing what is it good for? I'm asking seriously because i don't even notice that there isn't one in my Su-33 :)

 

Landing/takeoff, establishing a climb/descent angle (or nil angle,) visual representation of angle of attack and sideslip, general precision.

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Coming from WW2 era warbirds (and metric country) to the modern jets personally I simply find the Russian HUD/systems far more intuitive than US ones in FC2, I fly Flankers over Eagles because I'd have to pretty much start all over again to get Eagle info intuitive, where I just jump in any of the Russian birds and everything is right where/how I expect it. I like the radar/fire control system better, all of it.

Not to say the Eagle stuff isn't more technically sound, but I'd have to start all over again to learn it from scratch, but the Russian stuff is just how it should be with little or no familiarity, despite cyrillic (which I use, but can't read Russian or anything), I don't need to know how to read cyrillic, I know what all the symbols mean figuratively because the things I expect to be displayed are and right where/how I expect them. I find much less distraction from controlling the plane this way, and would need many more hours to get the same proficiency in an Eagle.

 

So maybe there is something to what was posted about the Russian system being more intuitive for instrument fliers, or older school generic training.

 

The previous generation of Floggers were even worse, I don't think they even had a HDD fitted to the fighter/interceptors, just limited HUD projection for fire control and nav by steam dials.

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... you're going to be looking at your HUD during 'close combat'? ... interesting :)

 

I always thought Russian Airforce embraced Close Air Combat & isn't FPV an advantage then?....maybe I'm wrong:)

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That doesn't mean an FPV will make a crap pilot into a good pilot. I would suggest that if you can't fly it without the FPV, you can't really fly it with one.

I can fly it, it's just s***.

 

In the case of the DCS Su-25T, it also seems to be based on the path rather than the point, so if you were to come at the path perpendicularly after a detour, it gets confusing. Sorry but FPV is far better.


Edited by 159th_Viper
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