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Navigating long distances


Skall
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Just curious how most of you handle navigating long distances. It seems, based on the manual, that the nav radios and NAVAIDS don't work/aren't implemented. Is it pretty much visual references and dead reckoning or are there any alternatives?

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Eyeballs, map and stopwatch should be all you need, tbh. :P (IRL you don't get to fly if you can't do this, even if the aircraft has navaids and GPS and so on. You need to be able to find your way if those systems fail.)

 

It's not as hard to do as people seem to think though. Doing it really long distance (like the bombers in WW2 etcetera) is obviously troublesome, especially since you might end up with old wind data and end up with the wrong course offsets, but the basics of it are easy to learn. After that it's just practice. :)

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Yeah pick a route that has good visual landmarks at the waypoints - know what the wind's doing at all heights you're operating at. Fly on a heading always, Follow you're progress very closely.

 

I can't navigate in this bird without ground references / visibility for any considerable length of time - I guess no one can?

 

It's VERY rewarding flying like this (when you get it right). Ages ago in MS 2009 I flew a lanc from UK, RAF Scampton, to Kiel and back, at night, with mod weather, simply 'using compass' and a modern European road map - took a while mind! but very rewarding when you get it right. Needless to say there were many corrections needed along the way.

 

It's great fun crossing water!


Edited by VIMANAMAN
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Try a full realism Coral Sea mission in IL-2, you will learn a lot about the navigation.

 

Oh yeah, that's an exercise that will give you a lot of respect for WW2 navy pilots.

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

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Fair enough, I'll have to practice. Do you jot down the legs, headings, duration, etc? I feel like the kneeboard doesn't have enough information. I guess I should also fly fairly close to the ground (~5000AGL?) in order to maintain visual references.

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Ideally you should be able to do it without any terrain visuals at all. Generally yes, you write down times and headings (and I like to have some notes about the wind directions and speeds as well there, in case I end up having to recompute for a new destination), compute every leg, and then it's compass and clock. :)

 

Though I admit I very seldom do things like this in the simulator. It's fun practice, but there are even funner things to practice most of the time. Like killing things or aerobatics. :D

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

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Do you jot down the legs, headings, duration, etc? I feel like the kneeboard doesn't have enough information. I guess I should also fly fairly close to the ground (~5000AGL?) in order to maintain visual references.

 

Yes write down the legs, headings, timings if you're serious about the exercise and want to be as sure as pos about it.

 

I do something in between - making sure I know the wind - and working out the difficult legs before hand - usually I plan a route that doesn't have too many very difficult legs.

 

I don't stay low - I just use big landmarks - lakes, rivers, coast lines, islands, cities, airfields, etc.

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I use ATC stations along the way. Call inbound and they will give you the vector to the airfield, you can also request azimuth on a regular basis. Then aboard landing, and fly to the next ATC. Maybe this is cheating...? And the method works only in friendly territory...

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I dont mind going all out to learn proper navigation. I enjoy sims like this just as much for procedure as I do for combat.

 

My thoughts / attitude exactly, both are very rewarding, but in very different ways.

 

Plus this is what the 51 was used for!

 

Planning a long range mission, with a furball in the middle at some point - but need to work out the motor a bit more first, not to mention finding the flippin' time :)

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I remember when I was given something of a formal training for IL-2 by a group I had to learn this stuff. It can be confusing but then the necessity of it forces your proficiency. Its easy to look at something, check the GPS, then know its the right spot, but having to make the call based on the visual cue... thats some heart stopping stuff that you just don't get in a modern jet.

 

One thing I find is, knowing this, and doing it occasionally, really impresses on you the value of the automated aides. You appreciate them in context better than before.

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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You rarely fly exactly where you want go due to winds blowing you off course.

E.g. you may need to fly 125 deg at 430kt to end up flying an actual track of 120 deg for 400kts distance. And thats assuming winds don't change.

 

Add in this wind drift and you can be way off and way behind after a while if you don't keep a list of landmarks to look for. look for anything that stands out enroute and make it a leg or reference point for the flight. E.g. turn on new heading over eastern edge of that lake, reference passing 3 mile due east of that easy to spot pair of villages at ETA 14:30 etc.

 

Google for private pilot training and navigation info as much of what you learn to do in a Cessna etc. navigation wise is what they did back then.

(except the radio navigation stuff we have now - Germany didn't provide much in the way of convenient radio beacons for allied pilots during WW2. Not sure why...:music_whistling:)

Cheers

Stuntie

 

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  • 2 months later...
Not to high jack this thread, but how do people display this info in custom mission briefings? Is there a way to map this type of navigation in the mission editor? Do I have to do math? (ohhhhnoesss :) )

 

Bit of maths needed. You get this TSD calculator, a stopwatch, TC-1 chart, and a good IFR kneeboard. Then you use visual cues like towns, airfields, and mountains (bit off).

 

 

In the mission editor, check waypoints distances, bearings and timings and speeds. then use TSD to get time needed at said speed.

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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