Landing model still feels unchanged - scripted

[Kenan]

Actually, I was planning on buying FC3 for the improved landing and take off physics, but if there's no difference I think I'll pass, or at least wait a bit and see if it's added later.

 

Updated landing physics, taxiing etc. is no small feature. It was announced and many folks decided to pay 40$ for it. That and F15C upgraded 6DOF cokcpit and all the little bells and whistels -could- to some point justify the 40$ price tag. However, if it stays like this, many of us will feel misslead.

 

I am NOT "bashing" ED, this is still beta and I hope this feature is yet to be implemented.

 

Any improvement over "ice skating" while taxiing and "super glueing" yourself on the runway on touchdown would make most people feel very grateful.

 

We don't expect an Advanced Flight Model (was never advertised at all), but please, tweak the code a little, even if it takes 2 more months, to fix the landing and ground behaviour.

[CaptJodan]

Actually, I was planning on buying FC3 for the improved landing and take off physics, but if there's no difference I think I'll pass, or at least wait a bit and see if it's added later.

 

Takeoff/landing physics and radar function were the two main reasons I bought it.

 

I'm not throwing a tantrum at the wall or anything. I am surprised to see little, if any sign of one of the main announced key features. But because it's still in beta, I'm willing to wait to see what improvements come with additional updates. The fact that the wheels don't even turn surely means there's more to be done (though graphics of turning wheels and physics of landing are probably two totally different things in the programming world).

[104th_Crunch]

FC3 is what it is. I anot expecting a new sim. I hope the beta is over soon, and there is no more work done on it. I really don't care what features it has, or doesn't. At least it brings fighters in to DCS. Let's move past FC3 quickly and move on to the DCS fighter!

[Pizzicato]

I am NOT "bashing" ED, this is still beta and I hope this feature is yet to be implemented.

 

By definition, all new features should be complete and finished with only minor bugs before a product qualifies as "Beta". The Beta should just be last minute fixes and polish.

 

All in all, this is the first Eagle product that I've felt severely disappointed by. P*Funk's assessment is extremely good in that there was easily enough info available to know that this wasn't worth $40, but even then I feel rather shortchanged.

 

I'm willing to wait and see how this unfolds (with no expectation that we'll see much more than what's in the current Beta), but it currently leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That's really unfortunate given how much love and respect I've had for Eagle over the years.

 

Fingers crossed that the next product we see from Eagle is closer to the wondrous Ka-50, Su-25T or even P-51 than this latest limp, overpriced effort.

[Kenan]

P*Funk's assessment is extremely good in that there was easily enough info available to know that this wasn't worth $40, but even then I feel rather shortchanged.

 

There's a difference between info provided and what's in the product. I knew why I wanted to buy FC3: 6DOF Eagle pit + improved landing physics. Those are the feature announced, not something community came up with.

 

So yeah, the dissapointment is not because FC3 is not DCS but rather the features which were (officially) supposed to be there, aren't.

[Kenan]

BTW, I know now why my previous thread was so quickly shut down.

If I knew back then this feature wasn't even implemented yet, I would have waited a bit longer before cashing out.

 

I guess if we got an honest answer there, things could have been a bit different.

[Pizzicato]

There's a difference between info provided and what's in the product. I knew why I wanted to buy FC3: 6DOF Eagle pit + improved landing physics. Those are the feature announced, not something community came up with.

 

So yeah, the dissapointment is not because FC3 is not DCS but rather the features which were (officially) supposed to be there, aren't.

 

Yeah, I hear you.

 

While we're on the subject of announced features, has anyone explored the expanded Georgian map? When I briefly checked the game out yesterday and hit F10, the map looked exactly the same size as the one in FC2.

 

Am I missing something?

[PFunk1606688187]

There's a difference between info provided and what's in the product. I knew why I wanted to buy FC3: 6DOF Eagle pit + improved landing physics. Those are the feature announced, not something community came up with.

 

So yeah, the dissapointment is not because FC3 is not DCS but rather the features which were (officially) supposed to be there, aren't.

 

Well this is why I try to almost never be the first one through the breach so to speak on most things I buy. Consumer reviews are important for my decision to pull the trigger on a purchase. Frankly, paying to get into a beta has always felt dubious to me.

 

I paid $60 to get into the The Old Republic beta and boy... was that disappointing. Everyone kept saying "ITS BETA! ITS BETA!" and about 3 months after the official release the proper patch came and I permanently quit that game cause all that wishful "beta" thinking meant nothing. So few meaningful changes can ever be expected after calling beta.

 

Thats not a slight against the product even, thats just a judgment of the detached unemotional consideration I've taken to making my consumer decisions. Experience has shown me that absent a clear and detailed promise from developers, you cannot call "BETA!" as a reason to just shrug off clear shortcomings and let downs.

 

Personally, I don't take anything for granted until either someone I trust who's played it or the company itself says unequivocally that something is true. Full price for an FC2 upgrade is in and of itself questionable, but to be in on the beta and not even get a full brief on whats happened in detail is just the kind of quagmire I leave to other more courageous souls to review for me.

 

I'm still reading, so who knows. But so far, my money appears to be firmly locked into my wallet as the whine fest continues. I'll add that I don't take whining for granted either. I have to evaluate everything everyone says. Thats just part of being smart, which sadly most gamers are not, be they the midnight buyers or the ardent abstainers.

 

When parsing the whining for me its its kind of like with Obama; Sure you can hate him, but I just think sometimes most people hate him for all the wrong reasons. XD

[Nate--IRL--]

Nope, Nate said he can´t comment (with regard to the still missing T/O-physics). Not very helpful in my eyes.

 

I'm not in a position to comment, apologies. It is not like I'm trying to be unhelpful.

 

Nate

[pyromaniac4002]

Some very good points, gentlemen.

 

At the end of the day for me, I'm sure I will eventually end up buying FC3. I like the work these guys do, $40 isn't super difficult to come by and we all know we've spent the same amount on far less deserving products at one time or another, and I really could use something to pass the time until DCS Fighter comes out. The 6DOF Eagle in DCS World is something I'm really going to enjoy, even if it's only SFM and simplified avionics. Been waiting a long time for something to grief (in the most sportsmanlike terms, of course) some Red Team pilots with in DCSW.

[G-Lock91]

I'm not in a position to comment, apologies. It is not like I'm trying to be unhelpful.

 

Nate

 

Is there just one person who is in a position to comment? Matt of course...

[sobek]

Is there just one person who is in a position to comment? Matt of course...

 

Nope, not only Matt.

[theGozr]

Imo they could call it rather DCS: F15 module if indeed the F15 had AFM.. or DCS: SU-25A if it did have a 3D cockpit since this one has AFM. DCS should finish one or the other first.

 

But for the moment flying online with other modules (P51, A10, SU-25T, KA-50) is like flying a DCS:FC3 product that have fast Ai's Jet aircraft that can be piloted by humans.

Edited November 9, 2012 by theGozr

[Exorcet]

But while I sympathize with their angst, I am not among them complaining because I saw this coming. Its a $40 DCS World compatibility patch with some tweaks, none of which really convince you that it was worth the price of admission.

 

I saw it coming and I made the consumer choice to not get it. I think more people need to think before they buy. Too many people on there forums just knee jerk "I WILL BUY ANYTHING YOU GUYS MAKE!" and that breeds a careless consumer culture which leads to angst over things many people could have warned you about. (Btw thats an actual quote I read today on these forums and I thought it was apt to the conversation)

 

I disagree regarding FC3, but you make a good point. Make an informed decision when buying and realize that you do not have to support what you don't want.

 

Given reactions to FC3 so far, maybe ask for more info before purchase. But also keep in mind, it's a beta.

 

 

Imo they could call it rather DCS: F15 module if indeed the F15 had AFM.. or DCS: SU-25A if it did have a 3D cockpit since this one has AFM. DCS should finish one or the other first.

 

It would take much more than that to arrive at DCS level from a FC plane.

[DD_Fenrir]

IT'S A BETA.

 

You've PRE-PAID not PAID; the difference is not subtle.

 

By pre-paying you are entitled to try the *unfinished* product.

 

So can we quit the whining and self-important attitudes and start logging the Bugs in a proffessional and courteous manner without the sneering air of self righteous entitlement?

 

Thanks.

 

The Only Guy in the Place Who New It Was a Beta (Apparently)

 

[Kenan]

^^It's intersting that people accusing other people of "whining" are actually the ones continuously repeating their discontent with other folks criticism. You connect the dots.

 

As previously noted, Beta means - features that are there but are still being worked on. It doesn't mean features that were announced but aren't there at all and you were required to pay for it.

 

So yes, we are "whining" because improved landing physics are not W.I.P or "getting there but not quite yet", it's because they're non-existant.

 

If this was some early-Alfa only few select could access, ok..but Beta means, in almost every type of software (and most of the time) - major features implemented, working on polishing the product and fixing the bugs before making an official (stable) release.

 

The Only Guy in the Place Who New It Was a Beta (Apparently)

 

I think you're the only guy who doesn't actually know what beta is, hence, the "looking down" attitude.

 

[71st_Mastiff]

I must say I was looking forward to trying it out (when I read the announcement about improved landing/take offs) and was very dissapointed when I realized it's still feels the same (scripted) like in FC2.

 

Also, the taxiing still feels like skating on ice..

 

Anyone else got the same feeling or is it just me?

 

Thanks.

 

feels very different to me the F15C feels very AFM, Landing and Take off.

 

Missiles AFM are reacting very different.

 

I still see blueish green smoke from the exhaust of the missiles.

[EtherealN]

Kenan, "alpha" and "beta" are not standardized terminology. At best you'll find a general sort-of consensus between developers, but there is no requirement that a "beta" product be 100% feature-complete because the term "beta" is itself not defined through anything other than common usage and each developer will use it differingly. If you want to go real hardcore about this topic, then most "betas" that people get access to through for example steam are not betas either, they are Gammas or C's.

 

In the case of ED, speaking recent times, was P-51 beta feature complete? (No.)

 

I do however agree that "whining about whining" should end. However, so should "whining about whining about whining". ;)

 

If you have specific complaints or suggestions, feel free to bring them forward, but do so in accordance with the rules - specifcally rules 1.2 and 1.10. Thankyou.

[DD_Fenrir]

^^It's intersting that people accusing other people of "whining" are actually the ones continuously repeating their discontent with other folks criticism. You connect the dots...

 

Errr, first and only post in this forum and response to anyone here.

 

As previously noted, Beta means - features that are there but are still being worked on. It doesn't mean features that were announced but aren't there at all and you were required to pay for it.

 

Beta means unfinished product. Especially with ED betas. If you have tried A-10C and P-51D pre-paid beta access you'll know this only too well. It took nearly a year from Beta release of each of those to reach final product. Check your understanding.

 

So yes, we are "whining" because improved landing physics are not W.I.P or "getting there but not quite yet", it's because they're non-existant.

 

No you're whining because you've got all over excited about how great FC3 is gonna be and when it hasn't met your overblown, over romanticised expectations you've got the hump. And because you, like so many of our ilk in the flightsim community - and the western worlds recent generations at large - unfortunately, come with a massively exaggerated sense of entitlement, you throw your toys out of the pram.

 

What then follows is that developers are often less than subtley insulted, it is insinuated some sort of incompetance/conspiracy/vendetta is afoot and this snowballs into an overblown argument that fractures the community, making sure that the developers prefer to keep us at arms length, hurt games sales and generally make life a pain in the ass for those of us who just want them to get on with it and pay our $ to enjoy their finished product.

 

If this was some early-Alfa only few select could access, ok..but Beta means, in almost every type of software (and most of the time) - major features implemented, working on polishing the product and fixing the bugs before making an official (stable) release.

 

I say again: Beta means unfinished product. Especially with ED betas. If you have tried A-10C and P-51D pre-paid beta access you'll know this only too well. It took nearly a year from Beta release of each of those to reach final product. Check your understanding.

 

If you don't get it this time I'll be happy to repost this information.

 

I think you're the only guy who doesn't actually know what beta is, hence, the "looking down" attitude.

 

You know what, I'm hoping you've got the nous that I won't have to repeat the Beta information again this time. And yes I look down on you; for your impatience, your self-righteous sense of entitlement and your bad manners. It smacks of immaturity.

 

That aside, you seem like a intelligent fellow, so why don't you take what I've said onboard, re-evaluate and then start posting your bugs in na inconfrontational manner in a legitimate bug thread and then maybe we can all get on.

Edited November 9, 2012 by DD_Fenrir

[EtherealN]

Actually, I think we'll close it here. This will only continue downhill I fear.