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Resource management system - questions


chromium
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Hi to all,

 

is someone already in touch with the new RMS? I have a couple of question:

 

1. The "reload" event is in some way (even scripted) triggerable?

2. what does exactly mean: period, speed, size, operational level?

 

I promise that I'll look myself ASAP also :)

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

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The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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1. The "reload" event is in some way (even scripted) triggerable?

2. what does exactly mean: period, speed, size, operational level?

 

Note: The resource system, much like the mission editor is never "finished", so there are hopes that much much more will be added to it in the future.

 

1. No. Its been requested however.

2.

Period: This one has always confused me slightly. But its basically how many times the warehouse can send resources per hour.

Speed: Speed in Kilometers Per Hour which the "virtual" supply chain moves. If Warehouse is 100 km away, and speed is set to 50, it will take 2 hours for the supplies to reach the warehouse requesting supplies.

Size: Size in tonnes of supplies being sent. Every object has weight. Fuel is VERY heavy, but not as much as an aircraft.

Operation Level: % of supplies remaining before request for more supplies is sent. Example: Level set to 10% for weapons/equipment. Base starts with 100 Aim-9, once there are less than 10 Aim-9 remaining, the base will request for Aim-9s to be sent from a warehouse.

The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world.

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another one :

 

in a multiplayer mission, when the resources are considered "used" and depicted from the warehouse?

 

 

 

(thank you very much in the meantime ;) )

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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Player spawns = -1 (aircraft type) from resource pool.

 

The same goes for their weapons and fuel.

 

As long as the player exists safely, not moving and doesn't explode, everything else should get added back immediately. AI aircraft are a little different. Once they taxi to their parking spot and engines shut down the weapons and fuel are added back. About a half our later the AI itself despawns from the gameworld and is added back.

The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world.

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Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread), SLMOD, IADScript, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum

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Each airfield has the Warehouse/RMS option - if i add a static warehouse object (somewhere outside of the airfield area) - and connect it with one or more airfields.... will the supply flow increase, because of the two sources?

 

If one warehouse connect to two airfield, will it split the supply flow?

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Thank you very much Grimes, I'll start working with it from tomorrow :).

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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Each airfield has the Warehouse/RMS option - if i add a static warehouse object (somewhere outside of the airfield area) - and connect it with one or more airfields.... will the supply flow increase, because of the two sources?

 

If one warehouse connect to two airfield, will it split the supply flow?

 

I almost need to graph some out some of the logic warehouses use, but I'll try to explain with text for now.

 

1. Warehouses will always request supply from the nearest linked warehouse. If the resource type requested is unavailable or the warehouse cannot send the supply, then it will look for the next closest warehouse that is linked. If no linked warehouses have the resource type needed, then the resource will never be replenished. I don't know if a supply request can go "through" warehouses. For example A is linked to B, which is linked to C. A needs resource X, but only warehouse C has resource X. I don't know if X will transfer to B, and then to C.

 

2. Yes. Supply will be sent as needed to each warehouse as each requests it.

 

Resources in the mission are all "real" objects that exist in each warehouse. The only ways for resources to be added into the system are by linking an "unlimited" warehouse to limited warehouses or by spawning AI aircraft which land and the base which will add its contents into the warehouse supply. For example a B-52 is a good way to resupply a base with fuel and dumb bombs.

 

Another thing to note is that circularly linked warehouses isn't a great idea once supplies are low. The supplied object will basically just keep getting sent in a loop in bulk quantities. The warehouses will not evenly distribute the supply.

The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world.

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Can be in the future "new" improvements on the Resource system?

 

For example:

Convert "virtual" convoys to vehicle / air / sea convoys and travel by road / air / sea to nearest links warehouse / airport / port with appropriate vehicle type and make the possibility to create "interdiction" air / sea / land missions to slow or destroy them. Force to make a new resupply mission if no reach the target warehouse.

 

Add "Ammunition" to "Equip" section, include all "bullets, projectiles and shells" necessary to rearm cannon and machine-gun on air planes.

 

Give "Airports" features to transport by transport aircraft / helo suplies by air to others airports

Add "Ports" to rearm and resupply sea vessels or transports to others ports by sea vessels. And link them with warehouses.

Give FARPs Warehouse type properties to rear and resuply helos on the ground.

Add rearm and ressuply vehicules to ground commanders on CA.

 

Control by Game Master / Ground commanders on CA direct control on game to change and move "supply" convoys


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Most of this could be done simply by trigger logic, if they will allow us to trigger the "resupply" event in some way. ES: you set a convoy from A to B. When the convoy start, you cut "n" supply tonnage from A. When the convoy comes to B, you add that tonnage to B. If the convoy is destroyed, halted or don't get safe to "B", than you lost the tonnage. you can also (for esample) set an "add" to any warehouse, so that you can maybe divert the convoy somewhere else by CA.

 

The first thing I'm going to do is to separate AIR supply (which will be on airbase) from fuel to weapons supply located in different buildings: this to allow enemy flight to hit a warehouse and cut supply.

 

It's really interesting the possibility to "supply" the base by external flight: maybe a tanker could do the work. But I suppose that the warehouse capability of an airbase isn't linked to a particolar destroyable 3D object... or not?

 

I hope to find it tomorrow... maybe.


Edited by chromium

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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Give FARPs Warehouse type properties to rear and resuply helos on the ground.

 

FARPS already are warehouses :)

The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world.

Current Projects: Scripting Wiki, Something...

Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread), SLMOD, IADScript, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum

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thanks :thumbup: no check them :doh:

 

I discover some ships has been "float" warehouses (heli or plane capables)


Edited by Silver_Dragon

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DCS: Roadmap (unofficial): https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116893

DCS: List of Vacant models: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4076891#post4076891

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Note: The resource system, much like the mission editor is never "finished", so there are hopes that much much more will be added to it in the future.

 

1. No. Its been requested however.

2.

Period: This one has always confused me slightly. But its basically how many times the warehouse can send resources per hour.

Speed: Speed in Kilometers Per Hour which the "virtual" supply chain moves. If Warehouse is 100 km away, and speed is set to 50, it will take 2 hours for the supplies to reach the warehouse requesting supplies.

Size: Size in tonnes of supplies being sent. Every object has weight. Fuel is VERY heavy, but not as much as an aircraft.

Operation Level: % of supplies remaining before request for more supplies is sent. Example: Level set to 10% for weapons/equipment. Base starts with 100 Aim-9, once there are less than 10 Aim-9 remaining, the base will request for Aim-9s to be sent from a warehouse.

 

This does look very similar to the campaign resource system in Janes F/A-18. Maybe not surprising, considering Wags is/was producer of both.

 

In Janes FA-18, however, the campaign resources were changed mission by mission, so that was much simpler to use and understand. This looks like it is much more sophisticated, which I think is a good thing -- just need to get our heads around it.

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What if a human player in mutliplayer session get a CTD? Lost your plane and the load? Or his plane and his load get back to home base?

 

Its lost. There is no easy way to detect if the player disconnected due to CTD or they saw a missile about to hit their aircraft.

The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world.

Current Projects: Scripting Wiki, Something...

Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread), SLMOD, IADScript, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum

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  • 4 months later...
  • 3 months later...

Hi, do you think is there a way to "export" the warehouse data in a separate lua file, than to sobstitute the one in the .miz archive to obtain some kind of long-term resource system in a series of consecutive missions?

 

(i.e. "saving" the warehouses amounts at the end of the mission or in a particoular moment?)

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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Maybe, but I haven't tried it and I don't know if the values are static or not. As you said within the .miz there is a warehouse file that contains all of the initial warehouse data. It is an easy enough process to access these values, but I don't know if these values will change over time according to any change in the warehouse. It very well could because it is a different lua environment from the mission, but I simply don't know.

The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world.

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Finally got around to testing it. You can access only the initial values of the warehouse system. Access to view/modify the current warehouses via triggers/scripting has been a long standing feature request since the system was first implemented.

 

To get the initial fuel for Anapa for example could be done with this line:

local fuel = env.warehouses.airports[12].fuel.InitFuel

The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world.

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So it is impossibile to even "track" the warehouse items number during a mission? :)

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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understood :)

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, I'm going to reborn this thread to explain an idea and to get some advice from you all.

 

I'm trying to simulate some sort of oil resupply net at a region level, with the current resourse management system limits and to be ideally used in a multiple days standing mission. Anything that I'm going to describe it's only "on paper" and since today not tested yet.

 

The resupply net will work on 5 level:

 

1. External creation

2. Simulated production

3. Major deposit

4. Local deposit

5. Destination

 

Absolute quantity have to be tuned cause they will be referred to Jet-fuel only at the moment.

 

1. External creation

A single immortal warehouse located outside of the battle scenario (i.e. Crimea o Turkey), that have infinite availability.

 

2. Simulated production

Production could be refinery or tanker terminal, any of them is linked to the External Creation resource. Their main characteristic will be:

-Relatively small storage (20-40 tons, but it’s to be tuned cause they will supply more than one deposit and could simulate a richer fuel diffusion or instead a limited one);

-Period of 180 or 360 minutes;

-Speed of 1000 km/h (as fast as possibile)

-Size of 10 or 20 tons (half of storage)

-Operating level 50%

 

The simulated production refinery structures will be made by an immortal single tank warehouse, that could be triggered dead by the destruction of the surrounding structure (ie. Tech combine). The tanker terminal, instead, are industrial port made by a single tank that is immortal… but trigger linked to some sea-route made by tanker ship. If those tanker ship are destroyed, the immortal-port warehouse is destroyed by trigger.

 

That should reproduce the continuous “production” of oil by a refinery or by import. There will be 3 to 5 Simulated production structures in the scenery per-coalition.

 

3. Major deposit

Fuel storage dedicated deposit: those ones are dedicated structures made by multiple tanks each one with a defined storage availability. Total availability can vary between 60 to 80 tons, with this characteristic:

-Period of 180 or 360 minutes;

-Speed of 50 km/h

-Size of 10 or 20 tons totally (5-10 per tank)

-Operating level 0% (when a tank is void it call for refill)

 

For example, one deposit could be made by 8 tanks of 10 tons each. If one tank will be destroyed during an attack, the total capacity will indeed be reduced. Any deposit will be linked from 1 to 3 Simulated production structure.

 

4. Local deposit

Local deposit are simply the storages of airport and FARP. Those are there because I don’t even know if there is the possibility of reducing the storage capability of an airport by destroying some buildings… and I bet not. So, the airport storage capability is simulated through one warehouse tank with this characteristic:

-Storage 20-30 tons;

-Period of 30 minutes;

-Speed of 60 km/h

-Size of 10 tons

-Operating level 50-60%

 

The local deposit are linked from 2 to 3 Major deposit. Obviously the different location will affect which major deposit will send the fuel.

 

The local deposit will be located nearest to the airfields and in some “resupply point” few kilometers near the FARPs, in forward assembly areas.

 

5. Destination

Destination are the effective airports and FARP. Airport will be linked only to its dedicated local deposit, while FARPs will be linked at the two (if available) nearest resupply areas.

 

They will have these characteristic:

-Storage 30 tons per squadron* for airport and 10 tons for FARP;

-Period of 1 minutes;

-Speed of 60 km/h

-Size of 1 tons

-Operating level 95%

 

I’m not that sure about the destination setting. What I want to archieve is that the resupply of fuel from the local deposit should be as continous as possibile and the airport should be almost always at full capability till the local deposit and resupply net behind it is capable to keep the fuel flow from the production.

 

Finally

 

What do you think about this net structure?

This could work or not?

What tuning or modification do think I can apply (given that I do not want simplify)?

Any other suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance :)


Edited by chromium

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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