DCS FC3 Questions & Answers Thread

[lunaticfringe]

So I was starting to doubt my F-15 knowledge (I am currently an F-15 crew chief with 12+ yrs on F-15C/D/E's) so I did some fact checking with one of the most experienced f-15C pilots I know with almost 20 years of flying F-15's and when I explained the AFM limits in game his response was "bullsh*t!" The F-15's unique ability to accelerate vertically is one the of the key attributes that the pilots use to gain the advantage in a dogfight and I simply can't come close to duplicating that aspect in the game. I realize that a video game will never be the same as the real thing but I figured I would would atleast bring it up in the hopes that the devs might fix it in a future update

 

Rather than simply asking him "does it accelerate in the vertical", ask him under what *conditions* does it accelerate in the vertical. The PFM does. It simply does not do it at all times, because the actual F-15 doesn't do so at all times, otherwise, we'd be talking about using it as an orbital platform.

[DIS Andrew]

We have contact with many F-15 SMEs. And we know how to read and replicate the TO's.

 

The in-game F-15 performance matches the TOs.

Hey man, we're all here to make the game better, no? And I think the best way to do that is to foster conversation about the issues that the game has, like the climbing abilities of the F-15. I get that there are a lot of people that claim to have knowledge that they indeed do not, but how about picking this Not_G guys' brain and see if he knows what he's talking about? You clearly seem to have plenty of access to F-15 SME's (not quite sure what they are). So that way if this Not_G guy is in fact a bullshitter, you can disregard his false claims of knowledge. And if he DOES know what he's talking about, maybe you can listen to this rare source of community knowledge, and fix a false aspect of the F-15. Either way, I don't think you should be shutting down active members like that.

[Not_G]

Lunatic, yeah man I really wanted to see if anyone would hear me out . But yes I agree with you and have access to all that information. Just want to see if It's even worth my time to dig through all the data and get a no sh*t "heres exactly what it's supposed to do" answer (thats alot of extra hours at work).

[lunaticfringe]

But see Not_G, here lies the rub:

 

Somebody sez "oh, Boeing says the F-15 accelerates in the vertical, thus the model is wrong", quoting a piece of advertising literature, which gives no breakdown as to the specific point at which it will do so, causing an argument. Meanwhile, folks with the charts can point to them and show where in the envelope it performs this acceleration.

 

Thus my contention towards yours- if you go to the pilot and simply ask if she'll do so, sure, he's going to say yes. It's important to know specifically where. This way, not only can you bring forward information that may or may not already be had, but you can confirm that you yourself are driving the aircraft within parameters that justify the contention that it's not doing as it should. You may find that is the case, you also may not. Point being, that it has to come from honest test and evaluation based on data, versus conjecture or opinion.

 

Just ask your crew for a baseline situation, and then replicate it as a start. Then start pressuring the charts and the info.

 

And if he DOES know what he's talking about, maybe you can listen to this rare source of community knowledge, and fix a false aspect of the F-15. Either way, I don't think you should be shutting down active members like that.

 

See above. There's enough conjecture coming out of every Tom, Dick, and Harry who have never seen an F-15 live and in person, let alone sat in the seat, without actionable information, that dismissal is the appropriate response until actually valid data is available.

 

This project was not constructed by Belsimtek in a void. Aircrew have validated it a number of regimes as better than the multi-million dollar distributed simulators employed by the USAF. Such resolution requires those experienced in actually handling a jet. So acting as though Not_G is the first person who might have had a concern, or have access to data that they don't have, isn't a useful exercise.

[Not_G]

Thanks for the input lunatic, guess I didn't really look at it that way... anyways theres obviously alot of charts to reference in order to PROVE what I'm saying which will take a lot of work on my part. I didn't want to put in all the leg work just to have a moderator tell me to f off in the end.

[GGTharos]

Yes, it will take a lot of work. We have people who have put that work in. If you do the work and find discrepancies and it's beyond 10% difference, then we have to figure out who did the test procedure incorrectly. It's very easy to mess that part up, and there can sometimes be issues of interpretation, which is where real pilot input is required.

 

Finally, weights and drag indexes are important. If I recall correctly, some FCF checks are performed usually with a clean, no-pylon aircraft, which isn't something you can get in this game.

 

Thanks for the input lunatic, guess I didn't really look at it that way... anyways theres obviously alot of charts to reference in order to PROVE what I'm saying which will take a lot of work on my part. I didn't want to put in all the leg work just to have a moderator tell me to f off in the end.

Edited May 5, 2014 by GGTharos

[Not_G]

Yes, it will take a lot of work. We have people who have put that work in. If you do the work and find discrepancies and it's beyond 10% difference, then we have to figure out who did the test procedure incorrectly. It's very easy to mess that part up, and there can sometimes be issues of interpretation, which is where real pilot input is required.

 

Finally, weights and drag indexes are important. If I recall correctly, some FCF checks are performed usually with a clean, no-pylon aircraft, which isn't something you can get in this game.

 

Ok, so I did a lot more testing and it turns out I wasn't doing it right... The results Im getting now are much more like what I was hoping for. I still haven't gotten the black and white answer Im looking for but I did find that the in game time to climb is about 15 sec off @ 30,000ft for me (I know... nitpicky). If you're interested I can upload a video of the tests just PM me.All in all the more I fly this thing the more impressed I am with the work you guys did, hands down most accurate f-15 I've seen in a game by far. And yes the FCF is done without pylons but the drag index on those are pretty small, they mainly affect the jet in a sideslip

[GGTharos]

Sure, you can post the video. Are you consistently off by 15sec? Sometimes pilot technique is a problem, I know I can kill energy easily if I'm not really, really mindful of my flying habits - a little porpoising is all it takes :P

 

Can you tell me which TO chart you were trying to match? This way the test can be flown independently as well. Also, 15sec may fit within the 10% margin (of course the devs would probably like the margin to be smaller, and that may happen).

[Not_G]

I'm having trouble posting the one chart by itself so I don't post the whole thing but It's the 1F-15A-1-1 fig B4-1. I used 43,000lbs, 30,000ft and 9.9 drag index (3.3 per pylon) I started the timer at brake release and factored in 30 sec for climb speed to be reached. I tested it about 10-15 times and they were all within a second or two of each other. I also tried at different pitch attitudes with pretty similar results.

[GGTharos]

You are pitching for 350 and then 0.9 at the crossover altitude?

[Not_G]

damnit! Yeah I was but I just noticed that the chart I have in my email and the print out sitting in front of me are different.... the one I had in front of me is -100 TTC and its exactly .2 min less than the -220 (surprised that its less). So that means your guy's model is consistently spot on! sorry about that

[GGTharos]

No worries, this stuff is complicated :)

[Sceptre]

can we expect the MiG-29 to be getting an upgrade (3D modelling wise) in the coming months?

[SAM77]

can we expect the MiG-29 to be getting an upgrade (3D modelling wise) in the coming months?

 

 

Anything just to give us a little hope.:noexpression:

[JABO2009]

can we expect the MiG-29 to be getting an upgrade (3D modelling wise) in the coming months?

 

besides some input for the Mig29 3d modell upgrade, can we get any info on the announced Su24 Fencer 3d model (the preview pics looked very promising :thumbup:) as well on the recently shown pics of Su34 :thumbup:??

 

the Su24 initallly was planned to get released for 1.2.8 IIRC?

 

thanks in advance

[JABO2009]

no one able to give a comment here? new Su24 to be seen in one of the next 1.2.8 updates ?

[TheProphet]

Nevermind, please delete.

[acenickells]

Hi I've just bought FC3 from the DCS store but it needs DCS World.

 

My DCS World is in my steam folder. Can I combine these or do I have to install another DCS World outside of steam?

 

I'm not very PC savy so any advice would be very wecome

[=Pedro=]

Hi I've just bought FC3 from the DCS store but it needs DCS World.

 

My DCS World is in my steam folder. Can I combine these or do I have to install another DCS World outside of steam?

 

I'm not very PC savy so any advice would be very wecome

 

Install FC3 via Steam

 

games->add game from outside library or something like that ;)

[Falcon_S]

Tell them that they can not do much without your air support and they will call you for help very often ;)

[acenickells]

Install FC3 via Steam

 

games->add game from outside library or something like that ;)

I can't because FC3 can't see DCS World and therefore won't install

 

even if I try to install to the steam apps common folder

[doveman]

Do the FC3 aircraft have clickable cockpits at all?

[Davis0079]

no....all keyboard mapping...that is the main difference between "DCS" airframes and FC3...

 

i dont believe any more none clickable stuff is being made....they simply added the old FC2 aircraft to DCS to give new players a lower learning curve and old players some airframes to fly till better stuff is built....

 

...DCS is "High Fidelity" stuff (clickable cockpits and accurate system models)

...FC3 is for ppl that want to learn to fly and shoot stuff without the hours of studying needed in DCS airframes

[doveman]

OK, thanks. I'm a bit of a click-addict, so I'm not sure I'd like FC3 then but I guess if I build myself some panels I can still map them to the internal FC3 commands like with the DCS aircraft can't I, or doesn't it even have those, just keyboard commands?

 

EDIT: To be clear, I'm asking if there's commands like this available for the FC3 aircraft, to allow me to control all the systems with an DIY control panel and Arduino:

 

{down = device_commands.Button_10, up = device_commands.Button_10, cockpit_device_id = devices.ELEC_INTERFACE, value_down = -1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = 'Main generator ON/OFF Switch', category = 'Ins Overhead panel'},

Edited June 6, 2014 by doveman

[=Pedro=]

Do the FC3 aircraft have clickable cockpits at all?

 

We are all wainting for F-15C clickable available in near future ;)