Major FFB Issue?

[Rotorhead]

The thing is, AFAIK it works correctly for the MS Sidewinder 2. The G940 has been dodgy in quite a few regards (i should know, i owned one myself until it died after 2 months of hardly using it).

 

Okay, my mistake. Maybe it's only G940s, not all FFB sticks in general. And yes, I know of G940's flaws and I have no idea how hard is to make the sim to work with it properly. But the thing is, previous versions had no problems with it whatsoever, as well as all other sim titles. So it's surely possible to make it work again.

 

And I can accept he fact that my G940 is broken. But I'm not going to believe that G940s all over the world decided to break themselves right in the moment of DCSW update (and magically fix themselves when re-installing older version). I'm remaining convinced that the problem is on ED's side.

 

By all means, stay on one version then, nobody is forcing you to update, no?

 

Well, as long as new upcoming modules require the latest version installed, I have only two choices: To keep on installing bugged updates, or not to have new modules at all. And, putting bugs on one side, I love ED sims and I want to enjoy them even in the future, without being worried about "what the new update will break this time".

 

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, updates are meant to improve the product, so encouraging customers to avoid frustration by not installing them is quite an irony.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Rotorhead

[Dr_Arrow]

The thing is, AFAIK it works correctly for the MS Sidewinder 2. The G940 has been dodgy in quite a few regards (i should know, i owned one myself until it died after 2 months of hardly using it).

 

 

 

By all means, stay on one version then, nobody is forcing you to update, no?

 

As far as FC3 goes you cannot roll back to lower version. I sincerely hope that ED won't throw the responsibility on Logitech - G940. I've had G940 since its release and have flown different incarnations of FC1,2/DCS World and many other games/sims with it without any major problems and certainly without any FFB problems. Current DCS World version has messed up FFB axis assigments for G940 and I really cannot imagine how can be this a problem on logitech side as 1.2.1 version works well. I've always supported ED's products and it would be a major disappointment for me if this bug wasn't fixed, as it doesn't seem to be some complex coding problem.

[mrsylvestre]

(...) The G940 has been dodgy in quite a few regards (i should know, i owned one myself until it died after 2 months of hardly using it).

 

Sorry to read that your G940 died so quickly. I hope you got a refund. Not everyone had the same experience, though. My G940 for instance has been working correctly for more than two years now. True, it is not the joystick equivalent to Logitech's excellent G25/G27 wheels that I had hoped for, but it does its job satisfactorily with all the sims I throwed at it, including the ED ones until 1.2.2. which broke compatibility for no stated reason. Was an update of the FFB code from the previous (working) DCS versions needed in the first place ? If so, does it make sense to break compatibility with what probably is, despite its imperfections, the most common FFB joystick used by flightsimmers today ?

 

By all means, stay on one version then, nobody is forcing you to update, no?

 

Sorry but I feel that this is wrong in several ways. As far as I know, nowhere on the ED website is it mentioned that their products are now incompatible with the G940. Can someone buying KA-50 today download a previous version, for instance ? (Yes, sort of, see EDIT below) For someone who performed an upgrade in good faith (the update system did not warn about breaking FFB for G940's, did it ?), is it possible to roll back versions ? Frankly, I am a bit surprised by your suggestion. Also, updates are meant to make a product better, right ?

 

In any case, it would be nice from ED to make a clear statement on the issue and if there are plans to address it.

 

EDIT:

 

In all fairness, I have to mention that the previous versions of the standalone (pre-DCS World) products are available on the ED website. This may be a temporary fix for avid KA-50 pilots, while ED hopefully fixes the DCS World G940 issue.

Edited November 18, 2012 by mrsylvestre
Keeping my posts Fair and Balanced (tm) ;)

[Dimebag]

I wonder if there is some .dll somewhere we can swap out which is responsible for ffb. Right now I have to fly with ffb off and spring centreing enabled in the profiler. Can't imagine trying to fly the ka-50 like that.

 

This problem needs attention, as for all g940 owners dcs is now broken. Forget formation flying in DCS with a g940, not possible.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Dimebag

[Ovenmit]

Doesn't seem like a priority fix to ED either... sad.

[mrsylvestre]

Right now I have to fly with ffb off and spring centreing enabled in the profiler. Can't imagine trying to fly the ka-50 like that.

 

Yes, the KA-50 is now grounded. For the planes (A-10, SU-25) however, there is a simple temporary fix. One just needs to reassign the trim buttons (up for left, down for right, etc...). Not pretty, but it works for me.

[PeterP]

Please try this little program to restore the old FFB behaviour for the KA-50 .

Damper and friction effects in force feedback for Black Shark

 

I'm using a MSFFB2, -I'm not affected of this bug - so I can't really tell that it will work for you.

But logic tells me that using this program with the G940 should be a temporally fix to restore the normal FFB trim behaviour.

 

jib, I did another version to see if the axes swapping is now correct and the spring stops while holding down the trim button.

If any of the axes is still inverted try to see which one, X or Y.

 

Remember that you have to use an actual joystick button. I mean, if you are using logitech's programming tool to send a 'T' with the trim button, my program won't catch any button press.

That same joystick button must be configured inside black shark as trim button.

 

Also, remember that you have to launch the program AFTER the mission is completely loaded. Or, if the program is already running, you have to select "Init DirectInput" in the Options menu to steal control of force feedback from black shark 2. But only after the mission is loaded.

 

Attached Files

simffb_jib_32.zip (14.7 KB, 31 views)

simffb_jib_64.zip (14.7 KB, 61 views)

 

Hopefully there will be soon a helpful official response from ED for those that are using the G940 .

... more helpful as the "advises" that are given here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1608354&postcount=25

Edited November 18, 2012 by PeterP

[tintifaxl]

By all means, stay on one version then, nobody is forcing you to update, no?

 

This is a sound advice that I follow through after long years of experience with flight sims. Doesn't hide the fact that ED testers don't use FFB, which should be remedied at once. :joystick:

[Suchacz]

By all means, stay on one version then, nobody is forcing you to update, no?

So, why do you think, that ED guys are making those updates? :doh:

[Rotorhead]

Please try this little program to restore the old FFB behaviour for the KA-50 .

Damper and friction effects in force feedback for Black Shark

 

I'm using a MSFFB2, -I'm not affected of this bug - so I can't really tell that it will work for you.

But logic tells me that using this program with the G940 should be a temporally fix to restore the normal FFB trim behaviour.

 

 

 

Hopefully there will be soon a helpful official response from ED for those that are using the G940 .

... more helpful as the "advises" that are given here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1608354&postcount=25

 

Hi PeterP!

 

Unfortunately, it does not work as expected (at least for me). Yes, it fixes the swapped axes (which only proves it is DCSW problem, not G940's) but my stick does not stay in the trimmed position (especially when I trim aft).

 

I experimented with slider settings, no avail. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Any tips?

 

But you have my rep anyway. You're the only one who at least tried to help us. Thanks.

[sobek]

So, why do you think, that ED guys are making those updates? :doh:

Try to understand what i said in the context of what i quoted and not as isolated statement, please. :noexpression:

ED should fix this asap as it is affecting all g940 users. This should be as simple going back to 1.2.1 implementation as it wasn't broken then. I for one do NOT want to go back to pre DCS versions as I would like the benefits of the other fixes the latest versions bring. In that sense, I am indeed forced to update.

[sobek]

This should be as simple going back to 1.2.1 implementation as it wasn't broken then.

 

It isn't that simple. Either it was changed on purpose, which means that the old implementation would not have worked any longer due to other changes in the code or it was an unwanted sideffect of changing something else. Both cases mean that you can't just go back.

[Dimebag]

It isn't that simple. Either it was changed on purpose, which means that the old implementation would not have worked any longer due to other changes in the code or it was an unwanted sideffect of changing something else. Both cases mean that you can't just go back.

 

So what you are saying is, abandon all hope? This really is a game breaker.

[sobek]

So what you are saying is, abandon all hope? This really is a game breaker.

 

Not at all, but it's not like ED can pull a fix from their behind like some of you believe. After all, ATM there are other areas as well where bugfixing is necessary, crashes usually tend to weigh in heavier compared to a portion of periphery not working correctly.

 

The team is aware and it will be tended to in due time. I can't give you any timeframes for the usual reasons.

Edited November 19, 2012 by sobek

[Suchacz]

Why is this thread censored? Where is Viper's reply, which was here few minutes ago? :cry:

Edited November 19, 2012 by Suchacz

[sobek]

It was deleted...by Viper. Do not try to look for artificial reasons to escalate. The issue is reported and being tended to.

Edited November 19, 2012 by sobek

Also as mentioned in other threads, besides the swapped trim axes issue, there is an issue with su25t rolling constantly left when FF is enabled after 1.2.2. The issues are probably related but I'm reiterating it here so in case ED missed the other threads regarding this...

[Dimebag]

Not at all, but it's not like ED can pull a fix from their behind like some of you believe. After all, ATM there are other areas as well where bugfixing is necessary, crashes usually tend to weigh in heavier compared to a portion of periphery not working correctly.

 

The team is aware and it will be tended to in due time. I can't give you any timeframes for the usual reasons.

 

Thanks sobek, that's all I needed to hear.

[PFunk1606688187]

Not at all, but it's not like ED can pull a fix from their behind like some of you believe. After all, ATM there are other areas as well where bugfixing is necessary, crashes usually tend to weigh in heavier compared to a portion of periphery not working correctly.

 

Yea, cause an entire slew of Black Shark players basically being completely incapable of playing the game isn't a big deal at all.

 

Crash error: infrequent issue that causes random people to crash from an active game

 

This problem: something that makes it so that even when everything is running normally you wan't to rage quit and play the new Assassin's Creed.

 

Broken versus bugged, and you're saying bugged is a bigger issue than broken?

 

I laugh at you sir, and pour myself another drink. :drunk:

[159th_Viper]

Yea, cause an entire slew of Black Shark players basically being completely incapable of playing the game isn't a big deal at all.

 

Crash error: infrequent issue that causes random people to crash from an active game

 

This problem: something that makes it so that even when everything is running normally you wan't to rage quit and play the new Assassin's Creed.

 

Broken versus bugged, and you're saying bugged is a bigger issue than broken?

 

I laugh at you sir, and pour myself another drink. :drunk:

 

What exactly are you referring to? The G940 FFB issue?

[sobek]

It is only natural for you to prioritize bugs that affect you especially. However, ED need to work the big picture.

 

With that being said, ranting will not give you the fix quicker, it will however get you into trouble. We have been lenient with the ranting and insults in this thread, in your own interest, do not stretch it any further.

[mrsylvestre]

The team is aware and it will be tended to in due time.

 

Now that is good to hear (read). Thanks !

[PeterP]

When a software fix will take long time and you use the G940 exclusively for DCS - and you don't want to wait, and you know how to rewire two cables - Here is a hardware hack:

 

 

Do this only when you know what you are doing! - and don't expect any further explanations/guidance from me.

 

 

Open the Base of your G940 and swap the both cables that goes to the brush-less motor that moves the "swapped" axis.

 

 

...been there done that - but I had to do it with the second MSFFB2 mechanic that drives this stick: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=83814

Edited November 20, 2012 by PeterP

[Rotorhead]

Not at all, but it's not like ED can pull a fix from their behind like some of you believe.

 

That would be great, but we know it does not work like that. Things take time. I don't expect fix to be ready overnight, but I was only unpleasantly surprised that it took 12 days to simply post "OK, we know of the issue and are working on it." Nothing more than that.

 

ATM there are other areas as well where bugfixing is necessary, crashes usually tend to weigh in heavier compared to a portion of periphery not working correctly.

 

Well, it depends. For G940 users, i guess it's pretty critical issue.

 

The team is aware and it will be tended to in due time.

 

That's all what I wanted to hear all the time. :thumbup: