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Missile Dynamics - A discussion


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How so?

 

There is more than one nation that utilises the F-15. 15's are not nevessarily restricted to the Blue coalition.

 

While it's true that Iran/F-14 can happen, the F-15 export nations are pretty stable and friendly (or at worst neutral) with each other as far as I know. In the short term, I don't see any F-15 vs F-15 outside of mock battle.

 

True. I would even vote for F-15 in Russian Coalition with aggressor skin. Or maybe whole new nation called Aggressors or something like that. This should happen sooner or later - everyone remember that we're waiting for Nevada map, yes?

An aggressor nation is something I've wanted for a long time. Aggressor skins are pretty much useless at the moment.

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Im sick of being underdog all the time, there is machines that are better then Su-27S modell to fight F-15C, it will be nice to fly DCS fighter all this underdog feelings will be gone. And I hope ED develops aircrafts that can match each other.

 

And there are infinitely better variants of the F-15C than this sub-MSIP bird by which to challenge your desired Flanker upgrades. Yet, if those come down the pike to appropriately engage the upgraded Su-27/33/35, we'd hear the "bias" word and complaints about the integrity of the developers, the moderators, the model, the Sun and the Moon, because we'll be right back at the point we are now: the F-15C "Golden Eagle" APG-63(v)3 AESA/JHMCS/AIM-9X/AIM-120C-7/JTIDS breaking your heart and stealing your lunch like the playground bully.

 

You define balance as "matching"; there is no such thing in the air combat environment. The Su-27S can match the F-15C under specific terms. Pilots go into combat with the intent to lie, cheat, and steal their way into the terms that best suits their airframe. That you do not enjoy or appreciate these terms does not mean that realism is lacking, or that balance does not have the ability to be maintained; it is simply a matter of your opinion, and what *you* want, because of some preconceived idea that if the Flanker isn't winning on all fronts with a 1:1 exchange rate or better, something is wrong.

 

The Soviets didn't believe that, and the Russians don't believe that now; which means that the faulty variable isn't the model, isn't real life, and it's not the developers- it's the opinion.

 

Doesn't matter if it's the F-16, the F/A-18C/E/F, the F-22, the F-35, the Su-33/35, the MiG-35; it will *never* be enough. There will never be a balanced set of scales as you see appropriate; that is the nature of the beast.

 

If you choose not to accept those terms, that's on you.

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Teknetinium refereed about the underdogs. I just love to be with the underdogs :D. What amusement can we retire with some über weapons systems.

 

Yesterday, after get bored waiting for the new missile dynamics iteration, I jumped on the 104th server for a while. After had lost a F-15 and shoot a bandit Frogfoot with a R-77 (sh***y MiG-29 radar...), I had to run after an extending F-15...

 

As not enough amusement, I run a quick mission, 100km head-on separation between an AI F-15 and a MiG-29A: not difficult enough to splash the Eagle. Second try: 2vs2. Then, after indicate my wingman go pincer high and he went to see the birds (literally) instead of engage the wingman bandit as ordered, without labels I was raped almost all the time.

 

And, IMHO, this should be the attitude here. We are simulating systems and situations. This is no real combat, neither we are training for real situations, even if combat is almost always dissimilar.

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In the IRM stage of the F-15C DACT missions, the AIM-9P is issued to the F-15C, which is not capable of a head-on shot.

 

wow really...why is that? i managed a head on shot on the flanker no problem... i have a track if youd like to see, it was a good kill!

but you clearly know more about aim-9's than i do, can you elaborate?

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The AIM-9P could still be shot frontally given certain circunstances, was the flanker afterburning?

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And there are infinitely better variants of the F-15C than this sub-MSIP bird by which to challenge your desired Flanker upgrades. Yet, if those come down the pike to appropriately engage the upgraded Su-27/33/35, we'd hear the "bias" word and complaints about the integrity of the developers, the moderators, the model, the Sun and the Moon, because we'll be right back at the point we are now: the F-15C "Golden Eagle" APG-63(v)3 AESA/JHMCS/AIM-9X/AIM-120C-7/JTIDS breaking your heart and stealing your lunch like the playground bully.

 

You define balance as "matching"; there is no such thing in the air combat environment. The Su-27S can match the F-15C under specific terms. Pilots go into combat with the intent to lie, cheat, and steal their way into the terms that best suits their airframe. That you do not enjoy or appreciate these terms does not mean that realism is lacking, or that balance does not have the ability to be maintained; it is simply a matter of your opinion, and what *you* want, because of some preconceived idea that if the Flanker isn't winning on all fronts with a 1:1 exchange rate or better, something is wrong.

 

The Soviets didn't believe that, and the Russians don't believe that now; which means that the faulty variable isn't the model, isn't real life, and it's not the developers- it's the opinion.

 

Doesn't matter if it's the F-16, the F/A-18C/E/F, the F-22, the F-35, the Su-33/35, the MiG-35; it will *never* be enough. There will never be a balanced set of scales as you see appropriate; that is the nature of the beast.

 

If you choose not to accept those terms, that's on you.

IMO, woud it not be better then to model two aircrafts that are equal to each other, Or would you not accept to fly older F-15 against new Su-27? I smell politics :)

This is what we do today against AIM120C!!!!

And ill say it against if Flanker use actives the game play for F-15 changes drastically :)


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No Tek, you are flying things for which ED have useable data about.

 

If you want to change that, add your sources. Go!

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And there are infinitely better variants of the F-15C ...
F-15C is a money maker in FC series. So ... it must be the best airplane. Wait until we get F-22 in DCS series! :) One F-22 will kill 10 Flankers and 10 Fulcrums in one run! And I am sure that's how it is in real life too. :)
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No, in real life it has an exchange ratio of something like 30:1. That means for every F-22 you lose, you take out 30 of the other guy's planes. But that's pretty circumstantial, too. It is a factor in planning though. The F-15's was supposed to be around 6:1 and that shrunk to 4:1 with newer flanker variants (SM etc), and even less probably for the Su-35BM ... until the golden eagles. But that's all a lot of speculation, the real figures are known by people with the right clearances.

 

Certainly there were aircraft that 'An F-15C can't even lock onto' for a little while before the GE upgrade. What they were I don't know, but they were out there and the implication was Chinese or Indian aircraft with very modern jammers, possibly some of the newest Russian offerings at the time ... but they had tactics for that too, and the 120 was made to deal with it as well. Just some stuff I heard somewhere.

 

Bottom line is that it's all very complicated.

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I can't see how any active missile could deal with a modern jammer using HOJ.

 

Maybe it doesn't,

Maybe it deals with it in some other way?

 

Let's not do "argument from personal incredulity". This is a realm where "stuff is sekrit".

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You people aren't tired of this yet. Broken record up in here!

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That's ok, those who use it do. ECCM is as varied as ECM.

 

I can't see how any active missile could deal with a modern jammer using HOJ.

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That's ok, those who use it do. ECCM is as varied as ECM.

Yes it all boils down to who has the best ECM vs ECCM, HOJ on noise jamming is obvious but deception jamming makes the radar track a target that doesn't exist thus making that missile travel into no mans land. With modern jammers if your ECM can outsmart your foe then his HOJ becomes useless.

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Just to nit pick, it depends on who has the better spies. In DCS, probably I could see it being a random-ish thing ... imagine the bug reports! :D

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The people that b*tch the most about a missle, are those that get b*tch slapped by them the most.

 

And anyone flying a 27/33 who complains about 120's must consider for a moment that it is a "you" problem, not a game problem.

 

Because others have gotten along just fine, no matter the version. Or numbers.

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The people that b*tch the most about a missle, are those that get b*tch slapped by them the most.

 

And anyone flying a 27/33 who complains about 120's must consider for a moment that it is a "you" problem, not a game problem.

 

Because others have gotten along just fine, no matter the version. Or numbers.

 

Reality is there are few very good guys in 51st and they don't get *ahem* slapped the most by the 120's so your assumption is not true

 

By the way do you people have to resort all the time with language such as calling someone a baby, b**ch ect... expand your vocabulary and lose this... replace moan with complain... replace b**ch slapped with hit etc... have some imagination


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... so your assumption is not true

 

So the motivation is what ?

 

... By the way do you people

 

What do you mean, "you people" ?

 

... have some imagination

 

You mean instead of responding to a poster with "kiss my a**" and "go $%&* yourself". Say something like "have a nice day" ? ;)

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So the motivation is what ?

 

 

 

What do you mean, "you people" ?

 

 

 

You mean instead of responding to a poster with "kiss my a**" and "go $%&* yourself". Say something like "have a nice day" ? ;)

 

It's not about what is the motivation, fact is those guys you think complain the most are the worst virtual pilots... well that's not true.

 

By "you people" I mean as I said... people that use this terminology of calling names etc, I thought that was clear.

 

You know what I mean, and I mean as I posted... calling names is just wrong and offensive as face it, we are not little kids here, most of the guys are well into their 30's and older :smilewink: You want to act like in high school and go with name calling you will be seen by me as "you people" :D

 

Get some style and reply smart whenever you can

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It's not about what is the motivation, fact is those guys you think complain the most are the worst virtual pilots... well that's not true.

 

Motivation is everything in determining intent. So you can read minds too, even on other continents. Well done.

 

... calling names is just wrong and offensive as face it, we are not little kids here, most of the guys are well into their 30's and older :smilewink:.

 

Your going to have to speak louder sonny !

 

Get some style and reply smart whenever you can

 

And this is not derogatory ? Hipocryte. So much for the moral "high ground".

 

I forgot how easy "you people" are.

 

I never called anyone a name, you do protest alot.

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If I find something not right I normally speak about it, so call it complaining or what ever you want, bottom line is people that complain about 120's are definitely not the worst virtual pilots as you've put it.

 

The "Get some style and reply smart whenever you can" comment, well first I still think was right, you go on about b**ch slappin' etc language I find immature so I don't care if you think I stand on high moral ground or you think I protest a lot.

 

PS: "Hipocryte"... there's name calling

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If I find something not right I normally speak about it, so call it complaining or what ever you want, bottom line is people that complain about 120's are definitely not the worst virtual pilots as you've put it.

 

Where did I say that ?

 

... I don't care if you think I ...

 

Exactly.

 

PS: "Hipocryte"... there's name calling

 

Empirical observation supported by your words here.

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crush of bone ' neath my feet.

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You said it right here:

 

The people that b*tch the most about a missle, are those that get b*tch slapped by them the most.

 

And see, this comment has style ;)

Empirical observation supported by your words here.

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