New Pilot With Questions About Online Etiguette

[Krudnits]

Hello Everyone,

First off, I would like to thank all of you in the forums who have helped me learn in this sim, even if you didn't know you had. I have been reading them for quite some time, but hadn't registered until today.

 

I have just come back to DCS after about 8 months without flying (my computer died). I am not great, I only know how to use Mavericks and some of the GBUs. My gun and rocket skills are rusty as well. I had only begun to learn when my computer died.

 

I don't consider this a game, because it really is the most amazing sim I've ever flown in, and therefore, I have questions about what is considered proper etiquette when joining a multiplayer game.

 

Is it okay to just jump into someone's game? I don't want to ruin someone elses battle by popping into a game for the more experienced. I still use unlimited ammo and fuel as I am not very skilled, and I don't know if popping into a game would mess them up.

 

Is it generally frowned upon to join a game and not have any form of voice comms?

 

I have some other questions, but I am currently drawing a blank. Thanks again for everything, and I look forward to getting to know everyone in the future.

 

 

Kyle

[badger66]

Its fine to join anyones open server , but try to keep basic questions to a minimum . Ive heard people asking "how do I start the engine" ..... it that case they shouldnt really be there .

 

Your optione will be set to whatever the server is set too . So unlimited ammo and fuel will be set to whatever the server is set to .

 

TS is a great way to learn from others , nothing like asking a question , and a good way to meet like minded people too for a laugh , but again , you should know the basics . Remember , we were all learning at one stage , and still are .

 

Hope this helps some :)

[Krudnits]

Thank for the input good sir. I suppose I will have to learn the startup procedure. Right now, in all of the missions I have done, the Warthog is already fired up. I did become disheartened with Black Shark at first because when I first picked it up, everything was still in Russian and I didn't understand what was going on. With A-10, the ability to get out and put some steel on target, even without knowing certain things, helped me stick with it.

 

Is the auto-start procedure something that is set by the server?

[Watari]

i guess most people use auto start online!

 

i recommend you to join a squad. public flying on open server is simple worst at the moment.

bad team vs team missions and the (casual) FC3 guys just waiting for the slow hog to get a fast kill.

 

on closed server in squads with TS u can have a really great time on a-10/BS based missions and you will learn very fast.

 

greez

[Krudnits]

Thanks so much! I have been looking to see if there are any groups in Minnesota, but I haven't found any on the google. I just rebuilt my robot and the new case is setup pretty well to carry around if I need to. But for now, I will research these squads you speak of.

 

Kyle

[badger66]

the 76th are recruiting as is the AEF ..... the 76th are an American based squad , which should suit your time zone perfectly .

 

AEF is Australian based but , many members from all over so someone is always about .

 

Both squads are while serious , very relaxed people to learn and fly with , and thats what you want at the end of the day . Some squads can almost be like being in the military itself !!!

 

http://tf-blackjack.com/content.php 76th

 

http://www.aef-hq.com.au/aef4/index.php AEF

Edited January 18, 2013 by badger66

[Krudnits]

Thanks for the information. I will get my skills up before I start hopping into other's games.

[MemphisBelle]

Thanks for the information. I will get my skills up before I start hopping into other's games.

 

I highly recommend the ED wiki, as it is full of stuff you might need.

It is actually selfexplanatory...just enter the wiki and follow whatever Information you are looking for.

If questions still persist, get into an flying online community and fly with the guys...STP is somethings I can recommend, we are flying serious as well as we teach others how to do so...

 

http://www.spare-time-pilots.de/

[Hamblue]

As far as Etiguette goes, Don't take off from the taxiway, don't shoot weapons at friendly bases or planes, Check that there are no planes landing before entering the runway, and don't try to fly in formation while you're learning, especially if the other pilot doesn't know you're near him.:thumbup:

[Krudnits]

I doubt I'll ever be able to fly in formation as I have the Logitech G940 (i picked it up before I knew it was bad). But thank you for the other pointers.

[Hamblue]

The G940 will work just fine. Just practice.(This sim takes a lot of it but worth it.)

[shagrat]

Thanks for the information. I will get my skills up before I start hopping into other's games.

you may look for servers with training sessions as well. Usually it's listed in the description. I saw some open freeflight servers which said "startup, landing and basic flight and formation training" quite regularly.

Online learning is fun and as soon as you know the start-up procedure try multiplayer. ;)

[Krudnits]

Hamblue,

Do you cover up the little sensor on the side of the stick (if you have the G940)? Seems like every time I move my hand to pet the dog (she watches me bust tanks) the stick sort of goes limp, then, cover the sensor back up and I am fighting the stick again.

[Krudnits]

I will keep my eye out for the training sessions. Thanks Shagrat. Also, do you know how much internet juice this sim sucks up? I don't have the greatest connection, but I have seen servers sitting at 70ms, I am just not sure if it would bog down once I was actually in, flying with folks.

[shagrat]

I will keep my eye out for the training sessions. Thanks Shagrat. Also, do you know how much internet juice this sim sucks up? I don't have the greatest connection, but I have seen servers sitting at 70ms, I am just not sure if it would bog down once I was actually in, flying with folks.

No problem. We talk about two different things here.

1. Bandwidth - the diameter of the pipe aka how much data in a certain amount of time, measured in kbit/sec

 

2. latency - the speed "water" is flowing through the pipe and reaches its target aka time until the individual data paket reaches the server, measured in msec

 

a latency of 70msec is fine (often called simply "ping" for the tool used to measure it). In general you would like to keep your ping/latency low. Numbers up to 200 perhaps 250 average are still ok, not great but ok. Any below 100 msec is damn good. You don't have any chance to change things here other than reducing traffic on your network (little sister watching YouTube, the miss doing ebay and a download running in parallel will also reduce your ping). If the internet is bad it's bad! :music_whistling:

 

Bandwidth on the other hand is how much data you transmit for updates, this is set in the Multiplayer settings, start with ADSL/256 or LAN and try reducing only if experiencing lost connections.

If the bandwidth is available use it. Most normal DSL lines can run the amount of data DCS needs easily.

 

A typical sign for latency is when planes "warp" or "jump" you will recognize when you see it... :D

[16th Widowmakr]

Hey Krudnits look me or us up on TS any time. We are usually hanging out and always ready to instruct newbies in the ways of the force. We have a TS server on the website, just shoot me an email and I will get you the password. We have members from all over the US and Europe so you can find someone online most of the time. Shoot me an email and I will fly with you any evening. The website is here since '98 http://www.16thaccw.com/j

Like others have said the best way to learn is get online and fly with someone. We're always happy to help out.

[Krudnits]

Rog,

I'm trackin' bandwidth and ping. I wasn't sure how much bandwidth gets sucked up when flying online. I'll also have to look into TeamSpeak. I don't know anything about it. When I was in the barracks, we used to hook up our xboxes over the LAN and sit in the ghost recon lobby to talk to each other while playing other games online.

[Wayc00lio]

What Widow said :-)

[Hamblue]

Hamblue,

Do you cover up the little sensor on the side of the stick (if you have the G940)? Seems like every time I move my hand to pet the dog (she watches me bust tanks) the stick sort of goes limp, then, cover the sensor back up and I am fighting the stick again.

I dont have that stick but had a sidewinder years ago. Force feedback sticks have a sensor that tells it when your hand is on it. Nice thing is you can take your hand off to sip a drink and it'll stay in place. It might even help with formation flying. Dont cover the sensor and you can fine tune the stick.

[Lange_666]

a latency of 70msec is fine (often called simply "ping" for the tool used to measure it). In general you would like to keep your ping/latency low. Numbers up to 200 perhaps 250 average are still ok, not great but ok. Any below 100 msec is damn good.

 

I don't 100% agree on this. Through my 14 years in online flightsimming i found that the lower the better is sort of correct but also the more constant the latency is, the better it is. So a low latency which constantly jumps up and down is far worse then a higher latency which is constant. For flightsims where most of the action between players takes place at a distance, a higher latency isn't always a bad thing as long as it is constant. And for online coöp missions like with the A-10C, it doesn't matter that much since most targets are static anyway. I had perfect online gaming with people with pings going well over 500ms. But it has to be steady, certainly when you get up close to one another. Just my 2 cents...

[Taproot]

I doubt I'll ever be able to fly in formation as I have the Logitech G940 (i picked it up before I knew it was bad). But thank you for the other pointers.

 

Whats so bad about it? I has it, I like it.

 

On the online thing I think your question is really good cause its hard to give a proper answer. Etuigete is different from server to server.

 

The one thing I find really general is this: Ask away! Well, when you do you get sent to this and this URL to read up. Usually, in whatever game there is little space for noobs.

[shagrat]

I don't 100% agree on this. Through my 14 years in online flightsimming i found that the lower the better is sort of correct but also the more constant the latency is, the better it is. So a low latency which constantly jumps up and down is far worse then a higher latency which is constant. For flightsims where most of the action between players takes place at a distance, a higher latency isn't always a bad thing as long as it is constant. And for online coöp missions like with the A-10C, it doesn't matter that much since most targets are static anyway. I had perfect online gaming with people with pings going well over 500ms. But it has to be steady, certainly when you get up close to one another. Just my 2 cents...

No, you are absolutely right. Fluctuation is making things worse. The problem is, a lot of different factors have influence and I didn't want to go too much into details, especially, because you don't have any real influence on the path that your traffic is routed through after leaving your home-router. :smartass: There are things like datagrams split into multiple packages that take different routes, packet losses for hop limits exceeded, that need to be resend, MTU limits harshly configured on older routers, and so on, but since you can't influence them usually, it is not worth, giving it too much thought. :D

 

As for the 500 msec ping, well it may be a total smooth and steady connection, but as you said when getting close or in time critical maneuvering (Air-Air-Refueling, Gun runs, Dog fights) it means any input you do on your side will be processed by the server after a minimum delay of half a second and the results be present on your screen after one second delay! So when you pull the trigger the Server host calculates the plane you try to hit in a position 500 msec later and sends this "result" back to your PC, where you wonder in amazement why the bullets did not hit... this is more so true for a SIM like DCS, that actually calculates individual bullet trajectories.

Other online shooters or casual games often use "Hitboxes" (Areas around the target) and a "bigger", invisible bullet/cloud like gun burst representation to calculate hits. This covers a lot for typical online latency and fluctuation problems:music_whistling:

[ilikepie]

Usually, in whatever game there is little space for LAZY noobs.

 

fixed it for you.

 

everyone's a noob at the start.....:joystick:

[Yurgon]

As for the 500 msec ping, well it may be a total smooth and steady connection, but as you said when getting close or in time critical maneuvering (Air-Air-Refueling, Gun runs, Dog fights) it means any input you do on your side will be processed by the server after a minimum delay of half a second and the results be present on your screen after one second delay!

 

Small correction: Ping measures the round-trip time, so with a ping of 500ms, the response arrives after 500ms (not 1000ms).

 

Anyways, 500ms is a fairly bad ping, playing fast paced shooters at such a latency is practically impossible and it sure doesn't help with flying online, although the effects of high ping are less pronounced there. And as was said before, constant high ping is better than erratic low ping.

[Krudnits]

Taproot and Hamblue,

I had to fidget with my stick a little bit. I turned the x and y axis deadzone up to about 15 and now handling is a lot better. I am actually able to keep autopilot engaged so I can sit in a holding pattern while talking to JTAC and I don't find myself in a steep dive for the ground when I am trying to turn certain systems on and off.

 

I don't know much about the fine tuning of the stick. I have been flying simulators for a long time (back to JSF- Joint Strike Fighter, in DOS), but have never flown one as accurate as this.

 

I am still practicing, a kind gentleman sent me a link to some videos and tutorials so I have a basic understanding of the CDU now. I am able to receive targets from JTAC and punch them in. I don't know if I am doing it the right way, but I am putting steel on steel.

 

I only have about 11 hours of flight time in after 6-8 months of dead computer, so I will wait a bit before I hop into any games. No pointing in making everyone have a rough experience on my account. Thanks again for all of your tips!