Engine management guide?? 1.2.2. short review.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Hello,

 

After downloading the final version of P-51D, I'm really excited to see the product arrive to that level of detail. Engine now is more tricky to operate. Gun sights are corrected and are very accurate and compensation for lead is just outstanding. Fuel system operation, electric power management, and ultimately, hydraulics management - the gear fairing doors just says everything about ED and their diligent work over the last months from release of P-51D beta 1 to the final iteration. The sound effects are so nice, and the combat experience with the guns, jamming, overheating, and recoil is nothing short of impeccable.

 

 

However, since the release of 1.2.2 Mustang, I've had several troubles identifying the engine feedback cues. Sometimes, as I'm taxiing down at idle, I hear a hiss noise briefly. what is that? Other times, when I'm starting up, I get the occasional pfft pfft and the engine just quits on me, what is that too?

 

 

From reading the colored 51 manual, the one with a general on the preface, and the F-51 manual (the one with P-51 pointing sideways) I've come to several engine (in the systems pages) terminology, but since I'm no real Mustang pilot, nor a pilot in the first place, I'd like to know how to identify those engine cues in order to better deal with situation.

 

Terms like pre-ignition, runaway propeller, overheating, supercharger surge, engine backfire, engine roughness (by foul spark plugs), carburetor icing, detonation. All are at section VII of the handbook.

 

Point is, I don't know whether these are modelled, and if so, which ones, and if so, their cues, whether audible or visible, and if so, how to tackle each of them?

 

 

Also, I'll be producing a short guide to engine management pending my understanding of engine (and systems, for that matter) limitations WITHIN the simulator.

 

Much obliged.

[leafer]

Good idea. A detailed tutorial of why this does that and when you should do this would rock my world.

[Merlin-27]

Excellent. I would love to know some of those sounds as well.

[VH-Rock]

Great idea WBK, will be very useful for a lot of the community :thumbup:

[Ali Fish]

unable to provide you more rep for your intentions, but ill be interested in this guide for sure wild bill.

[sobek]

Terms like pre-ignition, runaway propeller, overheating, supercharger surge, engine backfire, engine roughness (by foul spark plugs), carburetor icing, detonation.

 

Pre ignition, detonation are modelled afaik, causes are usually overboosting, can be identified by rough running and high manifold at mid to low RPM.

 

Overheating is modelled, your temp gauges will indicate it.

 

Supercharger surge is not modelled afaik, at least i haven't been able to generate one.

 

Backfiring is sort of modelled when the engine is running very slowly(below idle). Indicated by a loud bang.

 

Spark plug fouling is modelled, caused by running the engine at low RPM and power for prolonged time, indicated by rough running when going to high power settings. Can be mitigated by running the engines at high RPM and power until rough running stops.

 

Icing is not modelled at this time, afaik.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Runaway propeller is modeled as well. Not sure if it can happen as a system fault with the governor from how you run the engine but I have had it happen to me after taking a hit from AAA that knocked out the governor. It's pretty easy to identify with your engine RPMs going insanely high all of a sudden.

[Merlin-27]

Runaway propeller is modeled as well. Not sure if it can happen as a system fault with the governor from how you run the engine but I have had it happen to me after taking a hit from AAA that knocked out the governor. It's pretty easy to identify with your engine RPMs going insanely high all of a sudden.

 

Oh yes I've seen it as a result of receiving some 50 caliber greeting cards. RPM numbers skyrocket and the best you can do to prevent engine seizure is pull back prop control and throttle to bare minimum while you attempt to make it home. Hate that sound.

[WildBillKelsoe]

OK, let me make myself a bit clear:

1- when to use the 2 RAM air to the left side?

2- when to use oil dilute?

3- when to use scoops?

4- which manual is DCS using for charts? the colored one? the F-51? Charts are important for engine operation and overall operation, such as takeoff minimums, stall speeds, flap margins, fuel consumption, etc...

 

 

The 1.2.2 manual is corrupted and can't open. I still have the beta 1 (ground zero) manual. Does it still apply?

 

Pre ignition, detonation are modelled afaik, causes are usually overboosting, can be identified by rough running and high manifold at mid to low RPM.

 

Overheating is modelled, your temp gauges will indicate it.

 

Supercharger surge is not modelled afaik, at least i haven't been able to generate one.

 

Backfiring is sort of modelled when the engine is running very slowly(below idle). Indicated by a loud bang.

 

Spark plug fouling is modelled, caused by running the engine at low RPM and power for prolonged time, indicated by rough running when going to high power settings. Can be mitigated by running the engines at high RPM and power until rough running stops.

 

Icing is not modelled at this time, afaik.

 

rough engine: please explain? which sound are you using? I can't tell rough from smooth from extra crispy!!!!

 

overheating: as I start up, manual says push the 2 ram things forward. When to pull them back?

Edited January 29, 2013 by WildBillKelsoe

[Konrad Friedrich]

1.

Just copied that from the manual:

RAM AIR CONTROL LEVER. The Ram Air Control lever opens and closes the ram air door in the forward section of the carburetor air duct. The lever has two positions: RAM AIR and UNRAMMED FILTERED AIR. In the RAM AIR position, the front intake is open and ram air enters the duct toward the carburetor. In the UNRAMMED FILTERED AIR position, the ram air door is closed and air passes through the side filters to the carburetor. Normal flying operations should be conducted using ram air (lever set to RAM AIR). UNRAMMED FILTERED AIR can be used in severe icing or dust conditions.

HOT AIR CONTROL LEVER. The Hot Air Control lever has two positions: NORMAL and HOT AIR. When set to NORMAL, the hot air door is closed and either ram air or unrammed filtered air enters the carburetor, depending on the Ram Air Control lever setting. When set to HOT AIR, the hot air door is open and warm air from the engine compartment enters the carburetor. Note, the warm air door is spring-loaded and will open automatically in case of icing or other foreign object obstruction due to the suction on the carburetor.

Do not use HOT AIR at altitudes above 12,000 ft. Doing so may affect the carburetor's altitude compensation and result in an overly lean fuel mixture.

 

2.

You use the oil dilute switch when starting the engine at temperatures lower then 40°F. (the oil will be thinned with gasoline).

But I'm not sure when to set it to the "off" position again.

 

3.

Copied from the manual:

1. COOLANT RADIATOR AIR CONTROL SWITCH. Airflow through the dual radiator is controlled by an electric actuator which is mechanically connected to the coolant flap in the rear of the air scoop. Operation of the actuator is controlled by the Coolant Radiator Air Control switch on the Radiator Air Control panel. The switch has four possible positions: AUTOMATIC, OPEN, CLOSE, and OFF.

AUTOMATIC. This is the standard position of the switch and should be set for all normal operations. The switch is held in this position by a spring-loaded guard. With the switch set to AUTOMATIC, the temperature of the coolant governs the amount the coolant flap will be opened or closed.

OPEN. The OPEN position of the switch is spring-loaded and must be held in this position manually in order to further open the coolant flap. Releasing the switch from the OPEN position will automatically set it to the OFF position. The OPEN position can be used for ground operations or if manual adjustment of the coolant flap is necessary in flight.

CLOSE. The CLOSE position of the switch is spring-loaded and must be held in this position in order to further close the coolant flap. Releasing the switch from the CLOSE position will automatically set it to the OFF position. The CLOSE position can be used for ground operations or if manual adjustment of the coolant flap is necessary in flight.

OFF. Control of the radiator coolant flap is disabled.

 

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Konrad

[WildBillKelsoe]

thanks Konrad.

[Merlin-27]

2.

You use the oil dilute switch when starting the engine at temperatures lower then 40°F. (the oil will be thinned with gasoline).

But I'm not sure when to set it to the "off" position again.

 

According to the P-51 flight manual if running in such cold conditions you would dilute the oil with gas by holding that switch for a period of time (I forgot the duration) during your shutdown procedure to help the next cold startup. After the engine heats up the gasoline evaporates from the oil.

[Blaze]

However, since the release of 1.2.2 Mustang, I've had several troubles identifying the engine feedback cues. Sometimes, as I'm taxiing down at idle, I hear a hiss noise briefly. what is that? Other times, when I'm starting up, I get the occasional pfft pfft and the engine just quits on me, what is that too?

 

Hissing sound is the oil and coolant doors cycling as you power up and down. For the startup, I get that every now and then...it's usually when I engage the mixture to run half second to late or if my throttle isn't cracked open enough.

[sobek]

OK, let me make myself a bit clear:

1- when to use the 2 RAM air to the left side?

2- when to use oil dilute?

3- when to use scoops?

4- which manual is DCS using for charts? the colored one? the F-51? Charts are important for engine operation and overall operation, such as takeoff minimums, stall speeds, flap margins, fuel consumption, etc...

 

1 - At current state, always, since carburettor icing is not modelled. You'd always want to use ram air since it permits higher manifold than the compressor alone when flying above the critical altitude.

2 - As has been mentioned, when the oil is rather cold. At some point it becomes impossible to start the engine because it has too much friction due to oil being so viscous. Experiment a bit with cold starts and you'll see.

3 - Never, leave them on auto unless the governors have failed.

 

rough engine: please explain?

 

Most noticeable visibly since the cockpit will start to shake violently.

[WildBillKelsoe]

 

 

Most noticeable visibly since the cockpit will start to shake violently.

 

Sobek, shaking at idle or shaking at increased MP/RPM?

[Skulleader]

Hello,

 

I don't know if it's a good idea but why not used the A2A P-51 manual from her website ?

 

Link of this manual: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34075223/downloads/manuals/WOP3_P-51_Manual.pdf

 

And the second technical manual:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34075223/downloads/manuals/P-51_Accusim_Manual.pdf

 

Of course it's just a little idea and I don't know if you can use these manuals for your project...

Best regards, Skull.

[sobek]

Sobek, shaking at idle or shaking at increased MP/RPM?

 

At high power.

[Yo-Yo]

3 - Never, leave them on auto unless the governors have failed.

 

 

 

 

A good idea is to have scoops open before dogfight. Just in case. :)

[Kwiatek]

A good idea is to have scoops open before dogfight. Just in case. :)

 

Sry but what is a scoops?

[WildBillKelsoe]

Sry but what is a scoops?

 

scoops =

 

 

[Graves0922]

I guess I'm still a little confused on the use of the Hot Air lever. If/when carburetor icing is modeled, wouldn't you just leave it in the rammed position since the hot air door automatically opens if icing is detected?

 

And what do you do if you are flying over 12000ft and you detect icing? Immediately fly out of the icing layer I assume?

[Merlin-27]

Do a search regarding Carb Heat for the details. Basically, The biggest threat for ice in a piston engine aircraft carburetor is at lower altitudes. It is caused by moisture content in the incoming air flow. At high altitude, and lower temps, it is a less likely scenario. So in real life aviation, even in moderately warm climates, carb heat is mostly used upon landing where an engine stall could be catastrophic.

 

EDIT: In regards to your second question, Carb icing and Airfoil icing are much different phenomenon I believe. Not sure if either are modeled in the sim.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Merlin-27

[WildBillKelsoe]

Hello,

 

I don't know if it's a good idea but why not used the A2A P-51 manual from her website ?

 

Link of this manual: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34075223/downloads/manuals/WOP3_P-51_Manual.pdf

 

And the second technical manual:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34075223/downloads/manuals/P-51_Accusim_Manual.pdf

 

Of course it's just a little idea and I don't know if you can use these manuals for your project...

Best regards, Skull.

Skull, the best proposition you just made. After checking A2A P-51D, I immediately purchased their accusim for the purpose of only engine management. I know numbers can be a little off here and there, but I'm getting the hang of it. It's a tough simulator at least with takeoffs and landings. Here is my first landing on their forums.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

It's indeed a new sim inside of the sim (A2A's products as a whole), but, after playing DCS World, it's rather difficult to get back to any MSFS stuff.... Well, for me it's impossible :-)))

[LiveBait]

Great initiative, looking forward to this WildBill.

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