PVI-800 programming

[-MadCat-]

Hello folks,

 

once again I'm stuck with my ideas of how to solve or circumvent a problem.

This time it's about reprogramming the PVI-800 on ramp.

I like to just join custom self made mission and fly around, thus working out my route on site, in the cockpit.

I'm familiar with how to program new waypoints, targets or airfields in the PVI-800 system.

 

Now to the problem:

How do I properly program the DTAs between waypoints into the PVI-800, so I can use the analogue HSI for on track navigation, without the need for the ABRIS?

The supplied manual does not give too much help on that part of programming and everything I tried so far while programming the waypoints did fail.

I didn't manage to program a DTA into the system, neither in programming nor in any other submode, it always is "000".

That renders the DTA needle on the HSI useless when manually programming a route into the PVI-800 and you can only use DH.

 

I am out of ideas, the manual is no great help, and nobody I asked online so far had an answer to that issue. I didn't find a thread in the forum discussing that, either.

 

Note:

When I plan the route in the mission editor, all waypoints and DTAs are properly set in the PVI-800 and ABRIS.

 

I'm thankful for any help or comments!

 

 

EDIT:

Big thank you to all who contributed to the discussion and helped finding a solution!

flankerOne knew how to make the PVI-800 compute the manually input waypoints, and posted the procedure here.

Thanks to JG14_Smil too, who also really put some effort in finding a solution!

 

 

Greetings

MadCat

Edited February 5, 2013 by -=MadCat=-

[JG14_Smil]

Hello,

 

I'll look into it more in a bit, but there are some issues about manually added info in the PVI-800. The most noticable is wayponts will not automatically change to the next waypoint while in flight, it must be done manually.

 

Info entered into the PVI-800 is rounded out to the nearest tenth of a second, so it is not as accurate as the ABRIS.

 

I am not sure about the manual DH-DTA as you are explaining it, but the Ka-50 will follow manually entered waypoints into your PVI-800.

 

As you noted, all works correctly when pre-planned in the ME. You can also create other flight plans in two ways: The first will save the plan as long as the mission lasts, the second will save it to your harddrive for later use. To save a plan to your HD, you need to Prepare the mission in the ME. That is another issue.

 

A quick overview to save a new WP in the PVI-800 is:

 

(Ka-50 is alive and running)

 

1. Set PVI-800 knob to EDIT.

2. Push Waypoint button, then the number of the waypoint you want to save.

3. Push "0" to tell the PVI-800 that you are entering a positive coordinate.

4. Enter latitude, rounded to the nearest tenth of a second (43* 52' 49" = 43 52 8 )

5. Hit "0" to tell the PVI-800 that you are entering another positive coordinate.

6. Enter longitude with the preceding "0" on the degree, and then rounded to the nearest tenth of a second.

7. Hit Enter on the PVI-800.

8. Set PVI-800 knob to WORK or OPER.

 

Push waypoint button and number. AP will now follow the manually entered waypoint when you enable Route mode.

Edited February 4, 2013 by JG14_Smil

[seikdel]

Has anyone found a way to delete waypoints from the PVI? I haven't...

[Erforce]

First i would check manual HSI Waypoints selection to see where it's taking me.

 

And remember PVI-800 can have 6 waypoints maximum.

 

Beware or PVI rounding Decimal. last time i've tried, i've typed 042104 / 0(+)041423. It has displayed 042103 / +041422. BUT, when targetting with skhval, the true location was the one i've typed.

 

@ seikdel : ... good question !!! never tried that yet.

[JG14_Smil]

PLAN subpage, choose your waypoint, EDIT, DRAW, DELETE then activate the edited plan. That's from memory, but it should get you close. There might be a save in there, not sure.

 

After looking into the manual about the "Magnetic Heading/Flight Gyroscope/Manual Heading" switch located on the wall panel, I am thinking it does nothing at all as the manual says it uses "Flight Gyro" by default. In the sim "Magnetic Heading" is selected by default. The manual also made reference to INU ALignment and we know that does nothing.

Edited February 4, 2013 by JG14_Smil

[-MadCat-]

The switch to the right, according to manual, is the "Heading data selector for INU alignment".

Played around with it and didn't notice it having any invluence on the problem, too.

 

Some more things I noticed:

 

When manually programming waypoints in the PVI-800 withoug having any set up in the mission editor, the DTA/DH - submode correctly displays the heading when the DH/DTA switch on the autipilot panel is set to DH.

Yet the display shows "000" for DTA when the switch on AP panel is on DTA.

 

Now the scenario, when you set up 6 random waypoints in the mission editor.

Not only does the PVI-800 work correctly with those set waypoints, it also correctly computes all the DTA and DH data if you reprogram those 6 waypoints.

It's much like you "prime" the database with predefined data and make it accept new manually input data too.

But beware, when you put the random waypoints in the mission editor right on top of each other and then cycle through them in cockpit, the HSI needles lock up.

 

So placing 6 random waypoints in the editor could be seen as a treatment for the disease, but it's not a cure so far.

 

Any further input is appreciated, thanks for all the feedback so far !

 

MadCat

[JG14_Smil]

Here is what I tried and found:

 

I made a quick mission with a flight plan, flew it and noted how the AP acted when I changed the DH/DT switch on the AP panel.

 

I unloaded that flight plan, then created a couple waypoints while sitting in a hover. Much to my surprise they worked correctly, even with an auto waypoint change. DH and DT worked exactly the same for me.

 

I did not change anything on the DH-DTA Manual switch.

 

I think like Erforce stated earlier, the first latitude input seems to include the second number of the seconds when inputting, though it does not show it.

 

I want to test this with a Prepare mission flight plan that is saved to HD to see if waypoint change is automatic there too.

[-MadCat-]

That's a different story.

 

The PVI-800 works with degrees and decimal minutes, unlike the ABRIS that works with degrees, minutes and seconds by default.

You can either take the seconds from LAT/LONG from the ABRIS, devide them by 60, add the result to the displayed minutes and enter that into the PVI-800.

 

Example:

40°38'45'' > 45/60 = 0.75 (rounded 0.8 ) > 38 + 0.8 = 38.8 > enter "0 (for the preceding +) 4 0 3 8 8" into the PVI-800.

 

It only reads 1 digit past the secont ' for decimal minutes.

Try to enter a "0" as the second digit past the ' for the decimal minute for latitude.

That way you should have to enter 2 "0" before the third "0" would then be visible in the longitude display.

Indicating the PVI-800 would accept a second digit without showing for the decimal minutes.

In fact the second "0" will already be registered as the leading digit for the longitude coordinate.

We learn, PVI-800 does allow itself some tolerances for coordinates.

 

Alternatively to that maths thing, you can just change the way the ABRIS diaplays coordinates, to match the PVI-800.

To do so:

MENU page > OPTION > SETUP > UNITS > LATITIDE / LONGITUDE

Now you only need to round the last 2 digits.

 

To comment on the original question:

As said, if you "vaccinate" the PVI-800 with waypoints in the mission editor, it will correctly accept its fate of being reprogrammed and compute all the DTA/DH data as expected.

 

Yet the root of the problem remains, why does it refuse to do so, when you program it from scratch on the ramp.

 

I can't comment on the en route AP atm, as I never really use that.

Far too much enjoy flying manually myself :pilotfly:

Edited February 5, 2013 by -=MadCat=-

[flanker0ne]

If you insert new waypoints or just change them, in order for have a working DTA behaviour, you need to program/reprogram the waypoint sequence in the PVI-800.

 

From the Manual:

Changing the WP sequence

If you wish to change the WP sequence or add a new WP in the current route, the following steps are required: 1. Set the PVI mode selector to the “РАБ” (Normal operation) position.

2. Set the “ЗК-ЛЗП” (Desired Heading – Desired Track Angle) switch on the Autopilot panel (right side panel) to the “ЗК” (DH) position.

3. Press the “ППМ” (WP) push-button on the PVI

4. Using the PVI keypad, select the WP number selected as initial. After doing so, the number of the pre-programmed WP is displayed on the Waypoint display.

5. Press the “ВВОД” (Enter) button and the initial WP is loaded in the PNK.

6. Repeat this procedure for the rest of the WPs in the new sequence.

7. After inputting the last WP, press the “ППМ” (WP) push-button again. The WP sequence will then be saved in navigation computer memory.

 

What you need to understand si that "sequence" in DH mean automatic step throughout the waypoints, in DTA mean also the lines that link the waypoints.

When you enter a mission, in the PVI-800, you have the 6 waypoints and the sequence 123456

 

My team mate Chromium found that by set the sequence, for example 121, you can obtain an holding loop, better in DH.

Hope to be usefull.

[-MadCat-]

If you insert new waypoints or just change them, in order for have a working DTA behaviour, you need to program/reprogram the waypoint sequence in the PVI-800.

 

From the Manual:

Changing the WP sequence

If you wish to change the WP sequence or add a new WP in the current route, the following steps are required: 1. Set the PVI mode selector to the “РАБ” (Normal operation) position.

2. Set the “ЗК-ЛЗП” (Desired Heading – Desired Track Angle) switch on the Autopilot panel (right side panel) to the “ЗК” (DH) position.

3. Press the “ППМ” (WP) push-button on the PVI

4. Using the PVI keypad, select the WP number selected as initial. After doing so, the number of the pre-programmed WP is displayed on the Waypoint display.

5. Press the “ВВОД” (Enter) button and the initial WP is loaded in the PNK.

6. Repeat this procedure for the rest of the WPs in the new sequence.

7. After inputting the last WP, press the “ППМ” (WP) push-button again. The WP sequence will then be saved in navigation computer memory.

What you need to understand si that "sequence" in DH mean automatic step throughout the waypoints, in DTA mean also the lines that link the waypoints.

When you enter a mission, in the PVI-800, you have the 6 waypoints and the sequence 123456

 

My team mate Chromium found that by set the sequence, for example 121, you can obtain an holding loop, better in DH.

Hope to be usefull.

 

 

This seems to have done the trick :)

Just tested it real quick on the runway and after doing so, the PVI-800 really computed DTAs between the waypoints.

I will do a throughout flight test once time permits, but it looks promising.

 

It didn't even come to my mind that the PVI-800 needs to be told that the sequence is 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6, thought it "knows" that by default.

 

Thank you a lot, everyone who contributed to the problem solving process :thumbup:

 

 

This thread may now be used to maybe solve the other questions stated in between.

 

 

Thanks for all the help, really appreciate it !!!!

MadCat

[seikdel]

Alternatively to that maths thing, you can just change the way the ABRIS diaplays coordinates, to match the PVI-800.

To do so:

MENU page > OPTION > SETUP > UNITS > LATITIDE / LONGITUDE

Now you only need to round the last 2 digits.

 

Protip:

• Open up Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Ka-
• 50\Cockpit\Scripts\ABRIS\Options.lua
  
• Swap lines 457 & 458
  
• Swap lines 464 & 465
  
• Save

Voila! Now the ABRIS defaults to displaying coordinates in decimals. Enjoy =)

[flanker0ne]

Instead of swap the lines is more simple to add "default=0" for the first option or "default=1" for the second.

[seikdel]

Instead of swap the lines is more simple to add "default=0" for the first option or "default=1" for the second.

 

I'm not a lua gurua; would you please give me an example of what that'd look like?

[flanker0ne]

Swap the lines work because the ABRIS pick the first line (option 1), if you need the second one (option 2) you can tell him to do so by adding default=1;)

 

I don't have the code here sorry, but if you check some line down on the .lua I'm sure you will understand what I mean.

Edited February 6, 2013 by flanker0ne

[flanker0ne]

Original Option.lua

opt.Options.measurements.latitude = 
{
data = {
{"%02.f°%02.f\'%.s%02.f\""..LOCALIZE("C")," __°__\'__\""..LOCALIZE("C/Ю")},
{"%02.f°%02.f.%s\'"		  ..LOCALIZE("C")," __°__.__\'" ..LOCALIZE("C/Ю")},
},
}
opt.Options.measurements.longitude = 
{
data = {
{"%03.f°%02.f\'%.s%02.f\""..LOCALIZE("В"),"___°__\'__\""..LOCALIZE("В/З")},
{"%03.f°%02.f.%s\'"		  ..LOCALIZE("В"),"___°__.__\'" ..LOCALIZE("В/З")},
},
}

 

Modified Option.lua is

opt.Options.measurements.latitude = 
{
data = {
{"%02.f°%02.f\'%.s%02.f\""..LOCALIZE("C")," __°__\'__\""..LOCALIZE("C/Ю")},
{"%02.f°%02.f.%s\'"		  ..LOCALIZE("C")," __°__.__\'" ..LOCALIZE("C/Ю")},
},
default = 1
}
opt.Options.measurements.longitude = 
{
data = {
{"%03.f°%02.f\'%.s%02.f\""..LOCALIZE("В"),"___°__\'__\""..LOCALIZE("В/З")},
{"%03.f°%02.f.%s\'"		  ..LOCALIZE("В"),"___°__.__\'" ..LOCALIZE("В/З")},
},
default = 1

 

And for WGS-84 Ellipsoid instead of the default Krasowsky

 

Original is (default Krasowsky)

opt.Options.measurements.ellipsoid = 
{
data = {
{LOCALIZE("WGS-84"),LOCALIZE("WGS-84")},
{LOCALIZE("Красовского"),LOCALIZE("Красовского")},
},
default = 1
}

 

Modified is

opt.Options.measurements.ellipsoid = 
{
data = {
{LOCALIZE("WGS-84"),LOCALIZE("WGS-84")},
{LOCALIZE("Красовского"),LOCALIZE("Красовского")},
},
default = 0
}

[gunterlund21]

Scanning through this thread. Did anyone ever figure out how to delete the current 6 wp's in the pvi-800?

[JG14_Smil]

PLAN menu, SELECT, UNLOAD. This clears the ABRIS WP's. [correct my mistake here]

 

 

To do one WP at a time in PVI, Knob to EDIT, push WPT button and number, then RESET. Knob back to OPER.

Edited May 20, 2013 by JG14_Smil
corrected mistake

[Fishbreath]

That will delete waypoints in the ABRIS, but not from the PVI-800. Has anyone tried something like PVI 800 mode to Edit, select waypoint, Reset, Enter? Also, what's the upside of actually deleting waypoints, anyway? You can edit over top of existing ones, and you can set waypoint order to skip points you don't want to visit.

[JG14_Smil]

try a refresh, I edited the message. See if it works for what you want. Works fine for me. Just like the manual says...

 

If you didn't remove (or edit) the ABRIS WPS that would be pretty confusing. :)

Edited May 20, 2013 by JG14_Smil

[Fishbreath]

I mess with PVI waypoints all the time without playing around in the ABRIS, but that's mostly because I didn't put any ABRIS tasks on my avionics cheat sheet when I wrote it a few months ago, and now I've forgotten how to do everything on the ABRIS except for just using it as a moving map. :P One of these days I'll have to go through the interactive tutorial and learn it again.