Skitter Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Hi, I wonde if anybody could answer my question. In MCI 11-A/OA10, Vol 3 17 January 1997 (a bit old isn't it?) it says: 3.20.5. NVGs may be worn for night tanker rejoins, but will be raised to the up and stowed position or removed no later than 1 NM prior to the observation or precontact position. I also found this ( from 2008 ): Right now, during night-time air refueling operations in 'black-out' conditions, pilots in aircraft receiving fuel have to remove their night-vision goggles prior to an air refueling to prevent required visual references from being 'washed out' or obscured in the night-vision-goggle image. Also, current external lighting on the aircraft is easily detected by ground threats using the unaided eye. Correcting these deficiencies has a direct impact on mission accomplishment and safety in flight. http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123111514 Do you really refuel without lights and NVG ? I mean...how you do it ? Using sonar ?:smilewink: Cheers Edited February 13, 2013 by Skitter
Suchacz Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 :lol: Per aspera ad astra! Crucial reading about DCS: Black Shark - Black Shark and Coaxial Rotor Aerodynamics, Black Shark and the Trimmer, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 1, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 2
Skitter Posted February 13, 2013 Author Posted February 13, 2013 I know this guy... :thumbup: His flying skills are amazing! Poor guy, he had a bit screwed up relations with his parents...
Suchacz Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Sorry, but this was the first thing that came on my mind, when I read your post... :D Per aspera ad astra! Crucial reading about DCS: Black Shark - Black Shark and Coaxial Rotor Aerodynamics, Black Shark and the Trimmer, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 1, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 2
Snoopy Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 AFI 11-2A-OA-10V3 dated 22 March 2012 states: 3.20.6. Tanker Rejoin. NVGs may be worn for night tanker rejoins, but will be raised to the up and stowed position or removed no later than the precontact position and remain off through the actual contact and AAR. Goggles may be worn pre and post AAR in the observation position and in route position flying off the tanker. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
Skitter Posted February 13, 2013 Author Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Thanks! I've grabbed the new version of the manual. Edit: Haven't solved the mystery though Edited February 13, 2013 by Skitter
Snoopy Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Last year when we were night flying I specifically asked one of our pilots this same question. He said they refuel with NVGs often, but the Operating Instructions and Tech Orders don't go along with his answer. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
Skitter Posted February 13, 2013 Author Posted February 13, 2013 Is he a "real life" pilot ? Me and my mates fly "virtually" with goggles on (when refueling) too at the moment.
Snoopy Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Is he a "real life" pilot ? Me and my mates fly "virtually" with goggles on (when refueling) too at the moment. Of course, a real life A-10C pilot. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
KLR Rico Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 I'll look into the tanker side of things, but I imagine even under black out conditions the boom and PDI lights are still used, that alone should be helpful enough to make contact. i5-4670K@4.5GHz / 16 GB RAM / SSD / GTX1080 Rift CV1 / G-seat / modded FFB HOTAS
ptako Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 Me and my mates fly "virtually" with goggles on (when refueling) too at the moment. You asked for it. Tonight we'll try to do it with NVG stowed from 1nm from tanker. See you in cockpit:thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] -- "The three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and a good shit. A night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities to experience all three at the same time."
Skitter Posted February 15, 2013 Author Posted February 15, 2013 (...) I imagine even under black out conditions the boom and PDI lights are still used, that alone should be helpful enough to make contact. Unfortunatelly there are no lights located on the boom in the DCS World. At least there weren't any on yesterday night flight ( around 02:00), only the position lights went on after refuelling request. I think I can spot a boom light on this video:
AlphaOneSix Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 MH-47s and MH-60s do night aerial refueling under goggles, but the tanker (MC-130?) has NVG-compatible external lighting and so do the helos.
Snoopy Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 MH-47s and MH-60s do night aerial refueling under goggles, but the tanker (MC-130?) has NVG-compatible external lighting and so do the helos. That's basically the same thing I was told when I asked one of our 75th pilots at Moody. The tankers had added NVG-compatible external lighting and they tanked using NVGs. I just can't find any OI or Tech Data that say's anything about it. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
AlphaOneSix Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 I just can't find any OI or Tech Data that say's anything about it. Another case of operational reality outpacing the rest of the system?
Snoopy Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 Another case of operational reality outpacing the rest of the system? Could be but the latest C-1 is dated late 2012 and the updated OI was published March 2012. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
KLR Rico Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 Yeah, but even then they lag... In the AOR, our tankers hit A-10's day and night, but we don't have any NVIS compatible lighting, nor have I ever seen it on any other squadron's. Not to say that they aren't out there though. Either way, I imagine it's quite possible to do real life AR with NVG's, with or without the appropriate lighting... see a video: i5-4670K@4.5GHz / 16 GB RAM / SSD / GTX1080 Rift CV1 / G-seat / modded FFB HOTAS
Snoopy Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 Yeah, but even then they lag... In the AOR, our tankers hit A-10's day and night, but we don't have any NVIS compatible lighting, nor have I ever seen it on any other squadron's. Not to say that they aren't out there though. Either way, I imagine it's quite possible to do real life AR with NVG's, with or without the appropriate lighting... see a video: Hitting tankers is as common as any sortie now days, be it day or night. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
ShockerGuy Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Navy guys are 50/50 when it comes to tanking (real tanking...in my opinion) on goggles. Some put the goggles up pre-contact or while in port observation, some keep them on the whole time. The situation is a bit different from Air Force type tanking, but in either case, you don't have depth perception with the goggles on while tanking, which can be an issue for some. So, it's not so much a NVD-compatible lighting problem, it's a lack of depth perception thing.
Sierra99 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Hi, I wonde if anybody could answer my question. In MCI 11-A/OA10, Vol 3 17 January 1997 (a bit old isn't it?) it says: I also found this ( from 2008 ): http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123111514 Do you really refuel without lights and NVG ? I mean...how you do it ? Using sonar ?:smilewink: Cheers Tanker lighting is not night vision goggle compatible. Even at the lowest settings, the lights are far too bight for NVGs. http://vnfa2.tripod.com/VNT1-Chapter8.html Describes in detail what lighting is available for both the receiver, and Boom Operator. Sierra PS, my avatar was taken unsing NVGs. All of the receiver lighting was at its lowest and you can see the results. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.
Sierra99 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 I'll look into the tanker side of things, but I imagine even under black out conditions the boom and PDI lights are still used, that alone should be helpful enough to make contact. Something else I will add is this. "(ALL) Attempts to affect a contact during loss of any AAR lighting that results in less than desired illumination will be at the discretion of the boom operator." ATP-56 http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/14D206CB_5056_A318_A8E79888A0047727.pdf#page264 We can turn the lights down... And we try to be aware of the need for NVGs... But we have to keep the operation safe. Sierra [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.
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