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Where'd that little pony go?


Invisibull

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Wondering if ED plans on making the Mustang a bit easier to spot, or if they're content with the current scheme. Anyone in the know?

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In other words, without the use of tags, its very hard to see any aircraft even at close range. Its actually seems much more unrealistic then in real life. I feel based on my own personal expieriences, its much harder to see the aircraft in the sim then in real life,,,

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Yeah, Ive heard people say the same thing about finding ground targets, but I am not a programmer, so I dont know if it can be compensated for within the software to make it an even playing field? Just a thought

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You should be able to see a P51 size a/c up to 30kms away, depending on it's colours, angle and background. Getting closer sighting improves, but at 10 kms you must be blind not to see anything (but this also depends much less on the 3 points previously mentioned).

 

In IL2 a distant aircraft becomes a dot, with the colour slightly different to the background. As the dot gets closer it gets darker - more visible, and visa versa


Edited by Der_Fred
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Tests carried out at Duxford Airfield you can see aircraft doing an air display from 5nm and at say a height of say 2000ft. In the air, head-on, you should be able to see an approaching P51 at 2nm.

 

That is why the target lock command was added, as an alternative to using labels.

 

You should be able to see a P51 size a/c up to 30kms away, depending on it's colours, angle and background. Getting closer sighting improves, but at 10 kms you must be blind not to see anything (but this also depends much less on the 3 points previously mentioned).

 

In IL2 a distant aircraft becomes a dot, with the colour slightly different to the background. As the dot gets closer it gets darker - more visible, and visa versa

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You should be able to see a P51 size a/c up to 30kms away, depending on it's colours, angle and background. Getting closer sighting improves, but at 10 kms you must be blind not to see anything (but this also depends much less on the 3 points previously mentioned).

 

In IL2 a distant aircraft becomes a dot, with the colour slightly different to the background. As the dot gets closer it gets darker - more visible, and visa versa

 

I think conditions would have to be perfect for you to see a P-51 at 30 kms...

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In the attached screenshot you can see 3 planes in my windscreen - closest is 1 mile (.86nm), second is 3 miles (2.60nm) away, and if you look right above that one, the third is 5 miles (4.34nm) away. All are heading away from me and the altitude is between 6k and 7k ft. I'd assume these distances would increase a fair amount if the plane being spotted happened to be maneuvering perpendicular to my flight path. These numbers seem to be in line with the tests you're mentioning Jim.

 

That aside, I still feel a bit lost when vainly looking for planes i know for a fact are very close to me. Perhaps it's simply a matter of technique? I'll keep plugging along and see how things go.

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In the attached screenshot you can see 3 planes in my windscreen - closest is 1 mile (.86nm), second is 3 miles (2.60nm) away, and if you look right above that one, the third is 5 miles (4.34nm) away. All are heading away from me and the altitude is between 6k and 7k ft. I'd assume these distances would increase a fair amount if the plane being spotted happened to be maneuvering perpendicular to my flight path. These numbers seem to be in line with the tests you're mentioning Jim.

 

That aside, I still feel a bit lost when vainly looking for planes i know for a fact are very close to me. Perhaps it's simply a matter of technique? I'll keep plugging along and see how things go.

 

I definitely think is something you need to practice and train at like any aspect of any of the planes in DCS World. WWII pilots would practice tracking targets, training their eyes to see targets before they saw them. Different technics were used to try and scan for targets.

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The really hard part is seeing his gun smoke streak and not the bastard... However, darker colors appear well in brighter backgrounds, like air, whereas lighter colors appear distinctively against darker background. 3 nm is my spotting distance. As an addendum, you may always use the AWACS, the labels, or lock. The other day I had trouble spotting my friend after taking off, because we were both dark (Russian) and flying over the cities. Eventually we met over a lake and found each other.

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Tests carried out at Duxford Airfield you can see aircraft doing an air display from 5nm and at say a height of say 2000ft. In the air, head-on, you should be able to see an approaching P51 at 2nm.

 

That is why the target lock command was added, as an alternative to using labels.

 

Thank you for clarifying the issue. :thumbup:

 

Could you tell us something on the spotting algos used for the AI, when they are piloting a P-51? :helpsmilie:

 

Do the same spot restrictions apply to the AI spotting the player? Can the AI see through the clouds?

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Thank you for clarifying the issue. :thumbup:

 

Could you tell us something on the spotting algos used for the AI, when they are piloting a P-51? :helpsmilie:

 

Do the same spot restrictions apply to the AI spotting the player? Can the AI see through the clouds?

 

I am afraid the AI currently has good eyesight and can see through clouds! Difficult problem to solve.

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Thanks for that _very_ quick reply!

 

Thought so about the all seeing eye the AI have implanted - but I understand the difficulties clouds represent for LOS calculations and with the roots of the sim in planesets where A2A is very much radar based, this was a valid design decision.

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It's definitely tough to spot aircraft with only visual cues (the audio side of it basically just lets you know you barely avoided a mid-air or are about to begin running for your life) but I have noticed I am getting better at scanning. I have 20/15 vision and I initially expected I'd see stuff well in advance, however it reminds me of that scene in Top Gun...

 

Thirty seconds. We went like this, he went like that. I said to Hollywood, "Where'd he go?" Hollywood says, "Where'd who go?" :D

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I am afraid the AI currently has good eyesight and can see through clouds! Difficult problem to solve.

 

In IL2 they've resolved this problem.

I'd imagine they're using 'vector vision' for the AI (DCS), as when looking at the replay the AI lines up with me when I cannot even see myself, from the AI's POV.

A simple ray trace with 'collision detection' with clouds would resolve this problem.

:)


Edited by Der_Fred
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A simple ray trace with 'collision detection' with clouds would resolve this problem.

:)

:lol:

 

Imho it's not as simple as it may seem. It's hard to trace a collision with something that is not collidable.

 

Looks to me like the same problem as with AI ground units, that can see and shoot you through the forrest.

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Looks to me like the same problem as with AI ground units, that can see and shoot you through the forrest.

 

And that's the reason why I don't fly helis in DCS. Even 'though the see through clouds are no game breaker for me, I really wish ED could fix this before the release of the FW-190.

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And that's the reason why I don't fly helis in DCS. Even 'though the see through clouds are no game breaker for me, I really wish ED could fix this before the release of the FW-190.

I ment a technical aspect of that.

 

...but youre right, hard to use proper NoE helo tactics and terrain masking now :cry: Anyway, BS is still best helo sim by far :thumbup:

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One can create simple planar objects (horizontally and vertically) that represents the cloud, but is not visible and follows the cloud around. 'Viewing collision' is calculated on these objects.

 

They can be very imprecise to help speed up calcs, but at least it would go someway to making this part a leetle more realistic :)

 

Here's a simple pic presentation

A cannot see B as there's a collision at C

A can see C

CloudCollision.jpg.9917771bc585c9b2635117b169693bb6.jpg


Edited by Der_Fred
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One can create simple planar objects (horizontally and vertically) that represents the cloud, but is not visible and follows the cloud around. 'Viewing collision' is calculated on these objects.

 

They can be very imprecise to help speed up calcs, but at least it would go someway to making this part a leetle more realistic :)

 

Here's a simple pic presentation

A cannot see B as there's a collision at C

A can see C

 

 

Sounds like someone needs to start coding and fix this "simple" issue. :music_whistling:

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