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About to lay down SERIOUS money


Havoc04
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Hi guys...

Just got some cash. And have been looking at the Wathog HOTAS

Looked at video reviews etc

But

The one thing that properly concerns me the most is the stiffness of the stick.

And this seems to be the largest topic on otherwise a fine HOTAS setup.

 

So before i pay over $450 i would like some SERIOUS feedback please :)

And weather or not there are ways around the stiffness and the end result of the tinkering etc.

 

Oh btw I'm not new to HOTAS i have a X52 that has served me well over the past 4 or so years.

Great generic stick.

 

Thxs guys

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I've played with plenty of warthog hotas owners who couldn't kill anything without mavericks, or couldnt stay alive longer than 10 minutes in a hostile environment. My opinion is that the $450 you will undoubtedly decide to spend on this stick is not going to make you a better hog pilot.. That comes from learning the sim, and a $25 stick will do the same job.

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Oh yes agreed I know it won't make me an Uber pilot, and quite frankly i don't wanna be but i would like to be proficient in DC A10 and if this stick allows me to do so then that's an OK thing for me :)

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Oh yes agreed I know it won't make me an Uber pilot, and quite frankly i don't wanna be but i would like to be proficient in DC A10 and if this stick allows me to do so then that's an OK thing for me :)

 

Flying DCS: A-10C with the Warthog just feels natural to me. And beyond that it's an excellent piece of equipment.

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Flying DCS: A-10C with the Warthog just feels natural to me. And beyond that it's an excellent piece of equipment.

 

And the Stiffness of the Stick not to great?

Some say yes other say no....

I wish i had a local dealer i would go down and try hands on 1st.. But i cant so it is difficult to gauge.

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For me the stiffness is just perfect for the A-10 or any other aircraft that can be trimmed properly. I removed the spring once for helo but then it was way to loose for my taste. Since I dont want to modify my spring I just go with the original state again.

 

The only thing that bothers me is that the static friction is a little bit high which can make micro-adjustments a bit tricky. For me it is mostly a problem when the stick is centered, so the force to move it away from center is not perfectly linear at the begining. This is mostly problematic with helos or air-refueling and my solution to it is not to trimm to the center but holding the stick slightly behind center point. So it instead of a "push and pull" movement its more like "pull more or less", which also solves the problem with the friction to a certain degree. But dont get me wrong, I think there are tons of sticks where this is way more noticable as it is on the warthog.

 

Nevertheless I think the stick is totaly worth its money and I couldnt find anything better so far. As far as I know there are ways around the friction-problem by using a different grease.

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Personally I never noticed any "stiffness" in my stick. It doesn't have the too smooth movement of a plastic joystick, it moves and feels like a sturdy, full metal stick, which is what I love about it.

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The HOTAS is not that stiff.... It is exagerated, some people sound like you would need a ton of force to move it lol.

 

I disagree that a 25$ stick does the same... But i agree that for example a X-52 does the same, however it feels less real.

 

Decision decisions.

 

 

P.S.: I tryed my HOTAS in BF3 out of curiosity, you can forget that. You cannot move the stick fast enought due to weight to compete with all the kids flying with a mouse hahaha...

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The question that ACTUALLY comes to mind. Is why with such a nice piece of kit and functionality DID they NOT add some sought of tension screw or something? To make it as sloppy or as tight as the user wanted? Mind boggles on that one :)

 

Well i shall spend the money on the stick.. TBH i have ALWAYS wanted and it is within my grasp now so the deed will be done.. :)

Thxs guys


Edited by Havoc04
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The only thing that bothers me is that the static friction is a little bit high which can make micro-adjustments a bit tricky. For me it is mostly a problem when the stick is centered, so the force to move it away from center is not perfectly linear at the begining. This is mostly problematic with helos or air-refueling [...].

 

This it what bothers me the most as well. I don't find it perfectly smooth. I end up doing some jerky adjustemnts trying to overcome the friction. I had an old Saitek X36 back in the days and it felt more comfortable. Another point where I'm not satisfied with the build quality is the split throttle quadrant. If you use it without the interlock you have torsion on the right throttle when operating the switches.

Other than that it is a solid piece of kit. The spring is stiff, I agree but on the other hand it must be strong enough to center that heavy full metal stick.

 

I'm not sure I would pay the full price of 300 Euros for it. But luckily I didn't, I paid about half. And for that kind of money it's totally worth it.

 

A lot of the funs simply with the fact, that the control design of the A10 was build for that stick (or the other way round). That is just the way it is meant to be used. You have all the controls right there where you need it. That just gives you great ease of use.

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I got few sticks: Logitech Attack3, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, Speedlink BlackWidow. I also tried to fly with X-52 pro. All of them feel very plastick and too soft now, after I moved to HOTAS Warthog. But I don't regret a second.

 

Basically it is the most realistic stick I ever tried, it feels just right, very solid. For sure first few flights I did felt like I need to apply a bit more pressure, but you will notice that it is surgically precise. Also I get use to it very fast.

 

I also tried Russian MiG-21 and MiG-25 hardware simulators, and HOTAS Warthog is the closest thing you can have in terms of pressure you need to apply on stick and buttons.

 

Also, after Warthog I can't fly on any other stick, they are too "toyish" :D

If mine will brake one day, I would need to buy another one.

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I did the spring mod for the Warthog stick and like it very much. Easy and smooth - the spring has barely enough force to bring the stick back to the center position. I can't imagine to put the high tension spring back in.

Windows 10 64bit, Intel i9-9900@5Ghz, 32 Gig RAM, MSI RTX 3080 TI, 2 TB SSD, 43" 2160p@1440p monitor.

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From a financial point of view:

TMWH -> 400-500 USD

And you'll need trackir 4/5 pro unless you got it (140-160 USD)

On ipad, you'll need ictrlDCS around 40.

Those are whats necessary for 65% immersion.

 

My setup costs:

1- CH products fighterstick 100 USD

2- Pro throttle 80-100

3- pro rudder 100

4- Ictrl DCS 30 USD

5- trackir 4 pro 130 USD.

 

 

Do the maths. Oh, and CH is the best pot based hotas for A-10C, after the hog.

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AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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On ipad, you'll need ictrlDCS around 40.

Those are whats necessary for 65% immersion.

 

Don't forget the ipad itself then too.

 

65%? Where'd you get that number? That's 100% personall based! I will feel more immersed flying a big heafty stick than a plastic "toy".


Edited by MTFDarkEagle
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I have the x52 and its a decent stick. I upgraded the A-10 stick and wont be going back. As others have mentioned, it just feels right and works well with the helicopters in the game too. Its not great at super fine movements/ adjustments, but they are easily overcome with a bit of trim or rudder movement anyways.

DCS: A10C Warthog JTAC coordinate entry training mission http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/99424/

 

DCS: Blackshark 2 interactive training missions http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84612

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Look at the TM Warthog HOTAS as a long term investment with an excellent return! :)

 

 

Spoiler:

MSI 490Z Gamer Plus, i7 10700,64GB DDR4, MSI RTX 3080ti, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, VKB Gunfighter Ultimate MCG Pro w/200mm Extension, MFG Crosswind Pedals W/Damper, UTC MK II Pro, Virpil TCS Plus Collective, Dell AW3418DW Gsync monitor, 970 Pro M2 1TB (for DCS), Playseat Air Force Seat, KW-980 Jetseat, Vaicom Pro, 3X TM Cougar with Lilliput 8" screens. Tek Creations panels and controllers.

 

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And the Stiffness of the Stick not to great?

Some say yes other say no....

I wish i had a local dealer i would go down and try hands on 1st.. But i cant so it is difficult to gauge.

 

Its stiff because the handle is so heavy it takes that to center it. However unlike other stiff sticks I've had it breaks from the center position nice and smooth. The other stiff sticks I've had all jumped from the center and made it hard to make fine movements but I don't find that to be the case with the WH.

 

If you do its very easy to remove the big heavy spring and either use the small ones that are already in the base or find others that have a better feel that you like.

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And the Stiffness of the Stick not to great?

Some say yes other say no....

I wish i had a local dealer i would go down and try hands on 1st.. But i cant so it is difficult to gauge.

 

I honestly don't find the stiff too stiff, well atleast I've never felt it was a problem. No pun intended. If it is however, I've heard there is an easy to do springmod with removing the big spring in it. You won't regret buying it I can almost promise you :joystick:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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The one thing that properly concerns me the most is the stiffness of the stick.

And this seems to be the largest topic on otherwise a fine HOTAS setup.

 

So before i pay over $450 i would like some SERIOUS feedback please :)

And weather or not there are ways around the stiffness and the end result of the tinkering etc.

 

 

 

I think the stiffness is just about right. It felt funny at first becuase I was using a very old and sloppy joystick before. Once I flew a couple of times it was great. The rest of the controls feel pretty intuitive to me. However, if you are used to using a different setup it may not be worth the cost to you. But in the end, if the stiffness is all that worries you I think you'll be happy with it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/311Gryphon

i7-8700, 32 GB DDR4 3000, GTX 1080 TI 11GB, 240 GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Dual (sometimes Triple) monitor, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Combat Pedals, TrackIR

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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And the Stiffness of the Stick not to great?

Some say yes other say no....

I wish i had a local dealer i would go down and try hands on 1st.. But i cant so it is difficult to gauge.

 

After using Saitek from X-36 onwards, it did feel a tiny bit stiffer at first, but I got used to it quickly. X-45 was stiff too, but it was also hard to move from 0 position (due to ridiculous construction) and the base wasn't heavy enough. With Warthog I don't have either of these problems.

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X36, X45, X52 and X52 pro veteran here :-), I got a Warthog, Stiff is the wrong word it's firmer than the Saiteks but smooth with it, fine inputs are a breeze. Seriously if you got the cash you won't regret it's button rich throttle and great feel. BUY IT ! I know what you mean it's a heavy investment but having had Flightsims for the last 30 years starting with Fighter Pilot on the ZX Spectrum, the Warthog is the biggest and best leap in Stick Technology I've ever seen.

 

In summary "Firm" not "stiff" but smooth and even. Get one !

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After receiving mine I was a LITTLE concerned about the build quality of some of the throttle switches, but I have to say it hasn't missed a beat. Put over a hundred hours on the stick now and it's smooth and responsive. In my opinion you can't beat having the right tool for the job and if you enjoy flying the warthog, this is the stick to beat. The feeling of metal in your hands and the sheer weight of the thing and resistance of the buttons and trigger make it feel like it was stolen from a real aircraft.

 

The only down side is the lack of a twist rudder, but this is after all a no compromise replica and you should really be flying with pedals . Throw in TrackIR and you're looking at hell of a lot of money, but you won't find a better setup for the A-10C.

 

I also find the split throttles perfect for the P-51 and Black Shark.

 

In conclusion, expensive but worth it.

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