Froogles First Impressions

[Suchacz]

What means "coding" in English? Catching cod? Yea, that's easy! :D

 

[Rogue Trooper]

Man you guys must be spoilt with whats around nowadays.

I,ve been flyiing helicopter sims since I was 17 years old.

Microprose gunship I think was my first chopper sim and I have bought every thing with a chopper in it since.

I used to laugh watching real world pilots on TV flyiing a conventional chopper for the first time: overcompensating, undercompensating and just having a plain old nightmare.

I could easily do better.

I took a break from simming in 2004.

I started simming again last christmas, jumped into the kamov, took off and flew it like I never left and I would expect nothing less from the stable contra-rotating blade design (The Kamov is a lovely machine).

But once I jumped into the Huey I was over-compensating, under-compensating and generaly having a nightmare... just like a noob.... just like those guys I used to laugh at on TV.

I think it's testament to a great sim.... a beta sim of course with a few things to iron out but a great sim.

 

I for one am indeed a very happy simmer.

 

But the best thing is that you get shot at whilst struggling to keep the machine under control.... whats not to like.

[hassata]

This latest patch made this amazing FM even better IMHO.

[NoJoe]

Hmmm, after reading through this thread I'm now kinda curious to see the video. I still haven't purchased the Huey (though I shall!) so it's entertaining to see everyone's first impressions of it. :D

 

And Sundowner, I can totally relate to your exacting inspection of the flight model. I do the same thing with planes in X-Plane. :) So it's good to see you and others bringing up specific, detailed flight model notes like these. It makes for a better product for everyone.

 

--NoJoe

[Bulletstop]

I want to see the video.

 

 

 

 

Bullet

[Yurgon]

I still haven't purchased the Huey (though I shall!)

 

Yes you shall. :D

 

I've thoroughly enjoyed it every step of the way.

 

+1 for putting the original video back up. I came late to the party so I don't know what the fuss is all about. :smilewink:

[Bulletstop]

I really, really wanted to hate this sim, however the more I fly the more I like it. In fact I love it and can't wait to get home from work just to fly it around. Damn you all to hell, what was left of my social life is gone!! Not that I really had much of one anyway. You all have done a great job on it. The only thing missing is the smell of JP4. It has brought back many good memories. Thanks all!!

 

 

 

Bullet

[TimeKilla]

Here's his update, He says some nice things about us and the testers.

 

Edited June 6, 2013 by TimeKilla
//

[KaspeR32]

Yeah, I totally lost respect for this guy. Oh well.

 

I don't think his over correcting is listed as a bug for the flight model. lol

 

P.S. I would totally ask a NASCAR mechanic if he thinks the physics model for a racing sim is accurate. =\ Makes sense right? I mean, why would you ask a PILOT a question about a flight model anyway? We should always ask mechanics first.

Edited June 6, 2013 by KaspeR32

[Raptor9]

I'm all for a healthy debate regarding facts, as long as it's constructive and conducted in a mature manner.

 

Having said that, I would like to say that I agree with the above statement regarding subject matter experts. A person that maintains an aircraft, no matter how long, does not necessarily know how the craft should operate. This is not a personal attack on any sources of information regarding the Huey, but a check on which sources Froogle is basing his opinions on. Yes they are his opinions, which he is welcome to.

 

I've been on both sides of the helo house, maintainers and operators, and each side has knowledge regarding their field that the other can not attain without actually being in those shoes. That's a fact.

[159th_Falcon]

Very true Raptor. And that's why in helicopter operations you usually see a close co-operation between the two.

 

About froogle, didn't see his initial video that started all the fuss.

But this one is at least as arrogant and pedantic as he pertains us to be.

 

And that's my own honest opinion.

 

~S~

[Yurgon]

And then there is the matter of this whole thread. Someone points out an issue and the hounds get unleashed to the point that the video is now removed from public view. Is that really how ED fans want to be seen? As the playground bullies.

 

I don't understand your point. froogle said repeatedly that he removed the video because he wants to make sure to give an accurate description of the Huey and he fears he may not have done that.

 

Your point would only seem make this a debate between froogle fanbois and ED fanbois, which I think is not the case. Actually a lot of posters here have said that they respect froogle very much. As for the hounds getting unleashed, I can't tell what was posted on YouTube because the original first impressions video is still down.

 

So I re-read this whole thread and all I can see here is constructive criticism and some off-topic debate on the actual state of the BST Huey. Again, I haven't watched the actual video yet, so I can't tell whether I would agree with that criticism, but except for maybe two or three posts that I would call less helpful, this was a rather constructive discussion IMO. If this is what you call playground bullying, then we have a very different understanding about that term.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

I just watched

, and it sounds as if every member of the ED forum is a fanatic fanboi zombie ready to troll froogle or eat him alive for even the slightest misunderstanding.

 

With that in mind, this comment on his channel caught my eye.

 

besnardinaustralia 1 day ago

Hi Froogle. Mate just one question. Why do you feel like you have to explain yourself to these ****tards? I'm a novice with sims and I really enjoy your vids and I get a shitload of info from them. I've said it before. If you think Froogle is wrong or he has no credibility, **** off and make your own "credible" video... Ok rant over

 

Not a single post in this thread so far comes even close to deserving name calling like that comment. That is trolling. froogle repeatedly said he would ban trolls from his channel. That comment was not deleted, he actually replied to it.

 

Again, I don't know who commented what on the original first impressions video over at YouTube, but IMHO froogle is way out of line with the way he treats members, testers and moderators of the ED forums alike (quite possibly not even for stuff that was said here, but by who knows over at YouTube).

 

Here's his update, He says some nice things about us and the testers.

 

Once again, I don't get it. I see nothing here that's offensive towards froogle in any way (critical, yes, but not offensive). I can only assume that he has an urgent desire to overcompensate for comments that were posted elsewhere.

 

As for the flight model being off, I don't think anyone ever denied that. So once again, froogle, if you put your first impressions video back up, I would like to take a look at it to be able to judge for myself whether I think your problems come from the flight model or from you simply being the same noob that we all were when we first laid hands on the Huey. :)

 

Finally, I never got the impression that there was a general misunderstanding between "review" and "first impression" over here. After you repeatedly made the point that people tended to mix that up: I think it's really completely entirely clear by now. :D

[Suchacz]

^^^ +1

[marker]

Being a sorta noob here on the forums, and certainly to his youtube channel, it came across to me as him being rather arrogant and conceited!

 

Actually his attitude on his latest video made me turn it off after half way through and unsubscribe!

 

The thing is, he has his opinion, let him stick with it, most of us here if not all only want to see the HUEY go from strength to strength. I have a slight feeling that nothing would please him more, than to see the HUEY fail somehow!

 

Hey, we all have our opinions, right?

[msalama]

So who's this froogle character anyway, a contestant for the best DCS flounce of the year award?

[EvilBivol-1]

As a member of the dev team for DCS Huey I had decided to stay out of the original video discussion, but now feel compelled to step in to respond to some of the comments regarding our forum users and testers. I did not see the YT comments, but it doesn’t seem to me that this thread contains any personal attacks on Froogle, certainly nobody calling him an idiot or anything of the sort. The entire discussion only includes a few forum members, half of whom are in Froogle's defense. There are only two testers in the thread, only one of whom addressed, perhaps less than gently, the original video. No product devs participated at all. To take this and project so much negativity onto the rest of the forum, test team, and worst of all the dev team, which had nothing to do with any of this, seems to me to be uncalled for at best.

 

Also only 2 or 3 out of about 50 of our testers are also forum moderators, so not sure where that mistaken claim came from.

 

Unfortunately I think Froogle just took some of the negative response to the original video too personally and as a result made an unfortunate, unfair, and public projection onto the rest of the forum and test team. I do understand the problem of people getting overly defensive. Yes, DCS users will do that, but then again most online gamers do in general. These forums consist of dedicated fans and it’s not surprising that they may be a little sharp when they feel the product is being underappreciated or misrepresented. IMHO, better a gamer get defensive than a game reviewer, which is what I think may have happened here.

 

Still, I do appreciate Froogle participating here and responding to the feedback. Hopefully everyone can move past this little "episode" and move on positively.

 

So who's this froogle character anyway, a contestant for the best DCS flounce of the year award?

Wish I had made my post before, maybe you would not have posted this. ;) Let's try to avoid making this personal.
Edited June 7, 2013 by EvilBivol-1

[leafer]

So who's this froogle character anyway, a contestant for the best DCS flounce of the year award?

 

Maybe he needed a bump in traffic through his channel? Probably working too. Screw him and let the product speaks for itself which it does in spade.

Edited June 7, 2013 by leafer

[159th_Viper]

Well.......just when you've thought you'd seen it all, eh :megalol:

 

Let's attempt an objective comparison for what it's worth:

 

Who of us succeeded the first time with the P-51 take-off? 10%? 15%?

 

If you're one of those 10-15 percenters then good on you - you're a better pilot than I am. I have ALL the latest toys and I tell you, I spent the better part of an entire day , not leaving the chair, digging trenches off Min' Vody's active. I put the 'loop' into ground-loop that day I tell you.

 

Should I have based my subjective 'consumer review' on that one day's folly? My folly I might add, which was subsequently rectified by sound advice and time spent in getting to understand the aircraft. Took a couple of days and I was flying her like a pro.

 

As if history was repeating itself, same thing happened to me with the Huey, only this time it took me more than a day of wrestling before matters 'clicked'. Again, after a fair amount of reading and understanding and more importantly, after listening to and applying sound advice of current Huey pilots (*yes pilots, not wrench-monkeys) we have on the test-team. Guess what - I could all of a sudden do anything I wanted to with the Huey and I mean anything......Not difficult to do at all.

 

All it took was time spent at the controls.

 

I also have not had the pleasure of viewing the original vid - I wish I did, if only to attempt to ascertain how much hours was put into the SIM prior to posting the 'first impressions' vid.

 

Somehow I'm certain it was not enough.

 

*Disclaimer: No disrespect to maintenance techies intended :D

Edited June 7, 2013 by 159th_Viper

[159th_Falcon]

*Disclaimer: No disrespect to maintenance techies intended :D

 

At least you didn't call my colleagues and me Grease Monkeys.........

[msalama]

Let's try to avoid making this personal.

 

You're right, let's move on and spare the mockery. My apologies to Froogle if he's reading this - just wishing for a fair review when the chopper goes v1.0 is all :)

[Paradox]

Real life aircraft need practice and study to fly (well)..

 

A simulated aircraft's job is to be as close to the real aircraft as possible..

 

Therefore a well simulated aircraft needs practice and study to fly (well)..

 

Giving a simulation product a negative review because it needs practice and study to use is a level of barmy quite beyond my understanding.

 

 

I think that the negative review was actually not caused by it needing practice and study to fly but rather because froogle feels that the flight model is incomplete or inaccurate. The data from Sundowner.pl seems to support that, which is ok, it's beta.

 

That is the extent of the entire argument from my perspective.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Paradox

[TimeKilla]

Am not going to say anything more about it but this post sums up how he thinks

 

He thinks he has proven something that we all already knew that its a beta and its not 100% complete, He thinks because he can't get it stable that there's something totally wrong with the flight model when we all had that problem at the start as no one is going to be able to jump in a helicopter simulator and master it in the first hour.

 

I am not going to say any more am just really annoyed at his double standards and lack of common sense, he is entitled to his own opinion but when you insult a whole community and play the victim card to get you're point across. :doh:

[Suchacz]

I was "lucky" to saw the original video, before it was brought down.

 

I dont think that there was something unusual. Froogle only complained about Huey's inclination to early falling into the VRS and an unstability in HIGE. And that was true in the first release of Beta. Those things were tuned later, imho after the vid was made. As far as I understand him, the tone of the vid wasn't abusive and he was only describing his subjective thoughts and opinions. But I'm not native speaker, so maybe I overheard or misunderstood something.

 

I agree with EvilBivol, there's no need to argue. Reminds me one Shakespear's play - "Much ado for nothing" :D

[159th_Viper]

....but rather because froogle feels that the flight model is incomplete or inaccurate...

 

That's exactly what I find difficult to understand.

 

The 6 points raised in the thread as deficient in the FM and now in the second vid used as some type of anchor or ballast which which to seek vindication for the first vid (which in hindsight were already reported and being worked on at time of vid and thread, but that's besides the point) can hardly be picked up and commented upon with any authority by someone who, by their own admission, was guilty of over-compensating/pilot-induced oscillations and abusing the trim, especially on take-off.

 

If you cannot even get the take-off right, how on earth are the rest of the FM bugs 'evident' at first glance?

 

And yeah, because I attempt to ferret out bugs in order to properly report them I have a God-Complex? That's low-class and speaks volumes.......:huh:

[ec-swr]

first day first beta and a bad pilot :music_whistling: