DCS F-35A

[Wolf Rider]

And that, I believe, is exactly what KI should do as well. If they had some money to spare (and I believe they had), they should invest it into early development and make something at least half-working. Then, they should open the Kickstarter campaign and say: "Look guys, we are working on F-35 sim, and this is what we've done so far. You can see that we have very nice results, but we need more money to make it to the finish."

 

Yes, that would mean risking their own money, but that's business. I'm no financial expert so feel free to prove me wrong, but I'm sure this approach would bring them much more money than they have now. If nothing else, they would have my money already.

 

 

I tend to agree

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Technically, BMS isnt FREE, it requires a Copy of Falcon 4.

Indeed, technically it requires a copy of a single file called Falcon4.exe before you can install BMS 4.32.

 

I wonder how a Kickstarter campaign for the Salty Dog 502 X-47B would do ... oh wait, that thing doesn't have a pilot at all.

[SkateZilla]

Indeed, technically it requires a copy of a single file called Falcon4.exe before you can install BMS 4.32.

 

I wonder how a Kickstarter campaign for the Salty Dog 502 X-47B would do ... oh wait, that thing doesn't have a pilot at all.

 

It does when it's on deck.

[Saab-FAN]

Indeed, technically it requires a copy of a single file called Falcon4.exe before you can install BMS 4.32.

 

I wonder how a Kickstarter campaign for the Salty Dog 502 X-47B would do ... oh wait, that thing doesn't have a pilot at all.

 

Maybe it would look something like this: http://www.stolidus-simulations.com/robotvacuumsimulator2013/

:megalol:

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

It does when it's on deck.

"I'm a Salty Dog pilot".

"You park and taxi planes?".

 

Maybe it would look something like this.

There may be a market for it after all. The duel mode of that Robot Vacuum Simulator is pretty cool.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[Sarge55]

Ah.... F-16. Now that would be great. Tough to beat BMS though.

[Erdem]

I hope he gets the message.

[Kougar]

Hmmmm

 

Tomorrow is 7/13 and they are way short on the money they need to develope the F35. I was so hoping they would raise the money needed. :(

[K2mil]

Well I think by now we all give the most we can. Hopefully KI will stay on track and find another way to collect whats available in order to speed up the process a bit. Soldiers don't give up they fight.

[Rotorhead]

Yup, would be interesting to see what a Kickstarter for an F-16 would pull in...

 

It depends...

 

Yes, the decision to model F-35 was pretty controversial, because it's high-tech and classified and stuff...

 

The widely accepted belief on this forum for long time was that 4+ / 5th gen aircraft cannot be modeled because of military secret. Every time somebody asked for DCS F-22, PAK-FA or even a Superbug, he was usually replied something along the lines "You don't know it's top secret? Go play HAWX you noob!" Yet now somebody comes and says "I can develop a high fidelity F-35 sim!" Of course it met some serious disbelief.

 

The F-16, on the other hand, is declassified enough to be modeled at highest possible fidelity level without any problems. Everybody knows it because it was already done. So yes, F-16 would bring some more backers I guess.

 

 

But I really don't believe that the "too much hi-tech controversy" was the major cause of KI's Kickstarter failure. As I already said many times, they came out of nowhere, having no experience with DCS and no proofs of concept in their hands, and asked for money. I guess the results would be the same for an F-16 marketed this way.

 

 

And finally - I know I will be in minority in here - I'm not interested in F-16 so much. Yes, it's a nice plane - fast, agile, truly multirole and fun to fly, but personally, I was never appealed to this bird. I would rather put my money in F-35 (or many other jets) than in F-16.

[q800]

It depends...

 

 

But I really don't believe that the "too much hi-tech controversy" was the major cause of KI's Kickstarter failure. As I already said many times, they came out of nowhere, having no experience with DCS and no proofs of concept in their hands, and asked for money. I guess the results would be the same for an F-16 marketed this way.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Show something, put in some hard work first. Some basic model with animation (even canopy, flaps), basic avionics test working in dcs environment, basic start-up procedure. Create a feeling of nearly finished product... then ask for money. In a long term it's good for every1 of us, that this kickstarter didn't make it. It'll be healthier: work 1st, money 2nd. They thought it's enough just to say "hey, we will create something cool, but first give us money". They were wrong.

[Vivoune]

Agreed.

 

Show something, put in some hard work first. Some basic model with animation (even canopy, flaps), basic avionics test working in dcs environment, basic start-up procedure. Create a feeling of nearly finished product... then ask for money. In a long term it's good for every1 of us, that this kickstarter didn't make it. It'll be healthier: work 1st, money 2nd. They thought it's enough just to say "hey, we will create something cool, but first give us money". They were wrong.

 

That's the whole point of Kickstarter, to give money first and create later, thanks to the funding. Crowd-funding is a very successful marketing and funding method across the globe these past few years, imo it's more a question of popularity of the chosen aircraft.

[sUrge0n]

As far as I see, they already did some homework, and made some progress.

Look here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27277424@N04/sets/72157634318581967/

 

I hope it will turn out for the best.

I for sure, looking forward to fly that beast!

[Kuky]

That's the whole point of Kickstarter, to give money first and create later, thanks to the funding.

 

well not quite/always... look as beczl MiG-21Bis... he's done mods for FC1 then FC2 and only after he put into lot of work already and showed to the public what he's capable of, he asked for kickstarter funds and only because he needed it to fund DRM and pay someone for better art work (to make final product more professional) and for this I was more than happy to fund DCS MiG-21Bis, but not this F-35

[Darkwolf]

Thus i'm not in a stable financial situation, I would have easily wired a hundred € if the guy would have announced anything from a WW2 bird to a ~1980 plane. A 5th Gen fighter? -not interrested.

 

People complains about the Amraam / R27 balance.... It's going to be fun when it'll come down to a poorly modeled su27 against 5th gen F35.

[q800]

That's the whole point of Kickstarter, to give money first and create later, thanks to the funding. Crowd-funding is a very successful marketing and funding method across the globe these past few years, imo it's more a question of popularity of the chosen aircraft.

 

I don't care what kickstarter is. If you want money, first you have to show what you've got to offer. That's natural law, you can't just bypass it. And, as you can see for yourself, reality has verified it pretty quickly.

Popularity of chosen aircraft? Look around, get real, how many mashines we've got already and how many years have passed? Everyone on this forum will buy everything released, even the DCS: Paper Plane. I'll be happy if only 1/3 of already announced aircrafts see the daylight, within next 5 years, if ever.

 

Beside that, marketing and marketing. Look at Star Citizen. (personaly, ithink dude's got nothing, but has great marketing)

Edited July 13, 2013 by q800

[Vivoune]

I don't care what kickstarter is. If you want money, first you have to show what you've got to offer. That's natural law, you can't just bypass it. And, as you can see for yourself, reality has verified it pretty quickly.

 

And your carelessness towards KS obviously makes you miss its point. Its sole purpose it so crowd-fund a project, sometimes it's a project that is near completion with plenty to show sometimes it's just a fresh idea that calls for community support, in both cases something is shown, if it's not enough for you then fair-enough, don't participate in the campaign, that doesn't mean what is displayed isn't good enough for someone else to pledge.

 

Popularity of chosen aircraft? Look around, get real, how many mashines we've got already and how many years have passed? Everyone on this forum will buy everything released, even the DCS: Paper Plane. I'll be happy if only 1/3 of already announced aircrafts see the daylight, within next 5 years, if ever.)

 

You're just one of these people that love to think they speak for everyone else, you're not. That community you like to define as undemanding compulsive buyers is probably the complete opposite, it's not compulsive, it is dedicated, it is not undemanding but incredibly exigent and acute customers like most niche communities. Yes some aircraft are vastly more popular than others.

 

Beside that, marketing and marketing. Look at Star Citizen. (personaly, ithink dude's got nothing, but has great marketing)

 

'Dude' had spent 2 millions on the Star Citizen prototype and two years time of work before staging his coming back with Star Citizen and its crowd-funding debut, if that's nothing to you and merely marketing well I understand your expectation weren't matched with KI's campaign.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Vivoune

[npole]

The problem is exactly this.. KI did not proven to be capable of doing what he claimed, it's just a bunch of words: we can do this, we can do that, but the facts (and the money) is something else. In fact only 316 people trustem them, again: 316 PERSONS .. it is such a low number that more than one bell should ring into your head: am I doing something wrong? Obviously yes!

Probably KI believed that a bunch of "believers" were enough to finance a "dream".. but the reality is pretty different.

 

I'll give to you my money ONLY AFTER you have proven (with facts) that you are capable of doing what you want to do.. otherwise let's see you on release time.

 

The F35 is the worst decision they could ever made, probably they believed that developing a "unknown" aircraft would have been easier (ppl does know nothing about it, so we can just invent everything: the flying model, the avionics.. who will notice it's completely off?), but ppl aren't that stupid.. we'll apart some of them (316?).

 

Now KI will ask for money elsewhere... this project will never see the light as someone would imagine (DCS level module) .. if not in several years... by that time we will have more concrete aircraft released (hopefully).

 

And to be honest.. man.. the F35 (I mean the real one) is overpriced crap, made only to steal money here and there... and those countries participating into the project are figuring it right now.. cancelling their orders, turning on something a little more concrete (the good "old" superhornet.. or the Eurofighter).

 

And you still surprised why this thing didn't even hit the half of the funds on KS? :) I am suriprised that there were those 300 giving 32k for nothing instead!

[Revelation]

The problem is exactly this.. KI did not proven to be capable of doing what he claimed, it's just a bunch of words: we can do this, we can do that, but the facts (and the money) is something else.

Speak for yourself. Based on what I know, KI has the experience, knowledge and access to make this happen.

 

In fact only 316 people trustem them, again: 316 PERSONS .. it is such a low number that more than one bell should ring into your head: am I doing something wrong? Obviously yes!

Probably KI believed that a bunch of "believers" were enough to finance a "dream".. but the reality is pretty different.

Maybe there would have been more if they didn't have a few dedicated haters trying to scuttle their project? Sure they could have done things differently to reach a larger audience - that is life...

 

I'll give to you my money ONLY AFTER you have proven (with facts) that you are capable of doing what you want to do.. otherwise let's see you on release time.

Completely your choice, but the constant attacks against KI gets really old.

 

The F35 is the worst decision they could ever made, probably they believed that developing a "unknown" aircraft would have been easier (ppl does know nothing about it, so we can just invent everything: the flying model, the avionics.. who will notice it's completely off?), but ppl aren't that stupid.. we'll apart some of them (316?).

So now anyone that wants to see this project come to fruition is stupid? Congratulations you just violated the forum rules...

 

There is a lot known about the aircraft, a little research goes a long way...

 

Now KI will ask for money elsewhere... this project will never see the light as someone would imagine (DCS level module) .. if not in several years... by that time we will have more concrete aircraft released (hopefully).

And when they do deliver what will you say? How much crow will you eat?

 

And to be honest.. man.. the F35 (I mean the real one) is overpriced crap, made only to steal money here and there... and those countries participating into the project are figuring it right now.. cancelling their orders, turning on something a little more concrete (the good "old" superhornet.. or the Eurofighter).

You could not be further from the truth. The F-35 is not overpriced, in fact it's less than an F-22. It has more capabilities than any aircraft flying. A four-ship F-35 flight can engage more targets, both air to ground and air to air, simultaneously than a larger flight of any other aircraft.

 

Most countries are not pulling out of the F-35 program, that is an outright lie on your part. No nation has actually pulled out of the program yet. Several nations have looked at reducing their initial order, but still plan to order their original intended amount. Most nations, due to kenyesian economics, are in a budget crunch that has nothing to do with the F-35 program. In fact Turkey increased their intended total order from 100 to 120...

 

The "good" old superhornet or Eurofighter are great aircraft, they simply cannot compete with an F-35.

[TZeer]

And to be honest.. man.. the F35 (I mean the real one) is overpriced crap, made only to steal money here and there... and those countries participating into the project are figuring it right now.. cancelling their orders, turning on something a little more concrete (the good "old" superhornet.. or the Eurofighter).

 

This has nothing to do with this thread.

 

Should be posted here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35070

[Vivoune]

This has nothing to do with this thread.

 

Should be posted here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35070

 

Now that the unsuccessful campaign comes at an end you bet all kind of birds will come around and use that particular campaign as a means to support irrelevant arguments.

[531-Ghost]

[Gunnergolly]

but ppl aren't that stupid.. we'll apart some of them (316?).

 

A little harsh dont you think ???..

[Taproot]

I am suriprised that there were those 300 giving 32k for nothing instead!

 

Atleast i used my energy to trie get something created.

[Rotorhead]

...in both cases something is shown, if it's not enough for you then fair-enough, don't participate in the campaign...

 

Which explains their failure I guess. What they've shown was not enough for so many people...

 

You're just one of these people that love to think they speak for everyone else, you're not. That community you like to define as undemanding compulsive buyers is probably the complete opposite, it's not compulsive, it is dedicated, it is not undemanding but incredibly exigent and acute customers like most niche communities. Yes some aircraft are vastly more popular than others.

 

Well, the guy was probably exaggerating when he talked about DCS Paper Plane, but he's got point. Yes, some planes are more popular than others, but I think that every "mainstream" module (F-18, Mig-29, Harrier, you know what I mean) would be in similar sales numbers as the previous modules. Same for F-35.

 

And yes, many people here do buy all the modules, not always to fly them day and night, but sometimes only to try them out or just to support the devs. So please don't make the same mistake you're criticizing and don't speak for "the community".

 

The F35 is the worst decision they could ever made, probably they believed that developing a "unknown" aircraft would have been easier (ppl does know nothing about it, so we can just invent everything: the flying model, the avionics.. who will notice it's completely off?)

 

Really? We have some people around here who know quite a bit about real F-35, including a crew chief...

 

 

but ppl aren't that stupid.. we'll apart some of them (316?)

 

Great. Now the situation has developed into name-calling. Yes, maybe some of them are little easy to convince, but calling them all outright idiots? :doh:

 

And what about me? I haven't pledged, because I haven't seen enough evidence, but on the other hand, I don't share your hating point of view towards KI. Tell me, am I stupid too?

 

Now KI will ask for money elsewhere... this project will never see the light as someone would imagine (DCS level module) .. if not in several years... by that time we will have more concrete aircraft released (hopefully).

 

You seem to be happy that there will be on potential DCS module less. Can I ask why? Maybe more diversity should actually help DCS, no?

 

And to be honest.. man.. the F35 (I mean the real one) is overpriced crap, made only to steal money here and there... and those countries participating into the project are figuring it right now.. cancelling their orders, turning on something a little more concrete (the good "old" superhornet.. or the Eurofighter).

 

And who cares? How many Ka-50's were produced, and how many combat action have they seen? Not much, right? And does it stop us from enjoying Black Shark?

 

I'd happily fly overpriced crap if properly simulated, shame on me.

 

Maybe there would have been more if they didn't have a few dedicated haters trying to scuttle their project?

 

Well, it's always easier to see causes of the failure on the other side... But maybe you overestimate those "haters" a bit.

 

 

But honestly, this discussion is getting a bit boring. It seems that there are only two opinions to KI, both of them extreme and not entirely true IMO. Life is not black and white, guys.:smartass: