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DCS Tank Simulator Possible?


obiten

DCS Tank Simulator Possible?  

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  1. 1. DCS Tank Simulator Possible?

    • Yes
      268
    • No
      43


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Full high fidelity Tank Simulation is covered by Steel Beasts (proud owner here)

 

I'd rather see DCS sticking to what they know and continue delivering a quality product rather than waste resources on dumbed down and simplified FCS / ballistics that would only appeal to a small part of the community.

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I was thinking about using a DIS protocol to implement a DCS friendly version of Steel Beasts with the necessary tweaks on the maps.

 

That could be a blast. Quite literally.

 

Heck, there are even simpler ways to do that...

I wish I spent my youth studying networking code instead of all those p&p RPGs...

:/

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I'd have to say no here. I dont think there is a big enough market for a tank sim, let alone if each tank has to have at least a 3 person team to operate it...

 

Oh really? Arma blows ED away in sales...

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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Full high fidelity Tank Simulation is covered by Steel Beasts (proud owner here)

 

I'd rather see DCS sticking to what they know and continue delivering a quality product rather than waste resources on dumbed down and simplified FCS / ballistics that would only appeal to a small part of the community.

 

CA has already been made. Were talking about a REAL tank simulator.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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i would buy whatever DCS high fidelity tank module if such will be produced.

 

OFF Top: question to SB owners:

how does their licensing works with version 3 due very soon? is there upgrade package? basically im considering whether to buy it now and then buy an upgrade to v3 or just wait. till the release

Anton.

 

My pit build thread .

Simple and cheap UFC project

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Full high fidelity Tank Simulation is covered by Steel Beasts (proud owner here)

 

Yeah, but some competition is always a good thing for the consumer.

 

Just a few random thoughts here.. Steel Bests is professionally oriented so the choice of platforms seems to be primarily driven by military contracts. It also doesn't offer campaigns, nor AI airplanes and the maps and missions seem to be mostly community made and are of varying standards. I also wish they would introduce a working suspension animations.

 

Didn't try the CA so can't tell how DCS compares from the first person perspective, but the AI seeing through trees is a major obstacle (not only in ground warfare, though) which would hopefully be solved when this EDGE is finally introduced.

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agrasyuk,

 

It's split, in the end your probably going to end up paying the same amount if you got Steel Beasts 2.6 now and then paid the upgrade fee to get it up to 3.0.

 

Or you could just wait for 3.0 and pay the full price of admission for the sim.

 

Some have elected to get started early, to get familiar with the vehicles and how the sim works in preparation for the 3.0 upgrade, but it's up to you really.

 

I've had the sim for 6 years, and I'd recommend just waiting a month for the full 3.0 to get started, there's a lot of changes for all us with the upcoming upgrade, so we'll all be learning the new systems.


Edited by Invader ZIM
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I love the idea, but the big impediment to this is just the whole nature of getting a flight simulator to coexist with a simulator for anything on the ground, be it infantry or tanks. The flight part covers thousands of miles of three dimensional space, and that's not conducive to high fidelity graphics when you get down to the smaller parts like individual houses, trees, terrain features, etc.

 

I'd buy a full-fledged M1A2 sim for DCS, but somewhere down the line, I think it's going to become a problem that we have a fantastic simulated tank that we're driving around in an environment that's not even totally on par with Battlefield 1942 back in the day. Computers are getting more and more powerful all the time, but even at the exponential rate that performance is increasing, there's still a while to wait before hardware allows developers to pull something off like a proper land/air/sea DCS: World.

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Steelbeasts is a good sim, but as said the graphics engine is over 10 years old. It can be bettered in a number of areas I think, not least in modelling close air and artillery support which is abstracted. That and their Challenger2 is something of a bad joke.

 

Something LIKE steelbeasts in DCS would get my money though, but as said, what lets DCS down in this regard is the lack of terrain. Trees can be driven through, and whilst from 5000 feet the world looks great, what lets it down is the lack of hull down features or other terrain.

 

It may well we would have to put up with the latter just to make sure the flight sim component would have decent frame rates. If so, well fair enough, but it would definately bring combined arms alive. At the moment it feels more an exercise in moving counters around than any real vehicles.

 

If anyone is serious about doing a tank dcs, contact me. Ive a number of manuals of British and Soviet tanks. The latter not surprisingly are in russian, but some of the diagrams will doubtless be useful.

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DCS Tanks would be useless as CA is today in the current world : IA find you even if you are hidden in a forest.... We played tonigh JTAC mission as invincible and invisible unit, because we cannot mark something before being engaged by ennemies troops. :mad:

 

Tanks work en mass, so its not like we are simulating one tank vs A10 wings. Its more a case of maybe 4 A10s going up against a tank regiment with a company of Tunguskas. Looked at like that, a tank isnt quite as vulnerable as it first appears.

 

Even a company of T80s with a platoon of Tunguskas and a squad of dismountable manpads, whilst vulnerable on the move, would actually be much harder to attack if it was prepared. Also, the British Army has Starstreak, a laser guided AA missile. Unjammable in other words. So even relatively small tactical formations can prove deadly to aircrew if they arent prepared.

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Computers are getting more and more powerful all the time, but even at the exponential rate that performance is increasing, there's still a while to wait before hardware allows developers to pull something off like a proper land/air/sea DCS: World.

 

I think it can be done now, but you'd need someone to write a proper engine for that scalable enough to reduce the details from the airplanes and to increase them when using the ground vehicles. It should also be a proper multi-core thing. But, this takes a lot of time and money to develop from scratch and no big companies are interested to invest in that (at least not in the consumer market). Thus, we have current ArmA and DCS engines which seem to be somewhat limited by their legacy of original engines developed for e.g. Flanker 2.0 and Operation Flashpoint. Hopefully, EDGE will change this.

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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Its age? It's still in development... :huh: Latest update is about to be released...

 

But it takes them so long to release any development. I was on the beta team and they were planning Challenger2 back in 2002. Took them 10 years to release a crewable one. Im not holding my breath for any major developments over the new few years.There still isnt any night combat, and there is still a pretty narrow base of vehicles.

 

Im impressed by what they have done with it, and credit where its due. However its not a highly dynamic development process to be charitable to them.

 

As I say, I would like a DCS tanksim. A broader market isnt going to do anyone any harm I think.

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As I say, I would like a DCS tanksim. A broader market isnt going to do anyone any harm I think.

 

Yep. If you want to stay alive and make money, this is how you do it. Bringing in tanks and infantry will bring in the FPS / Arma crowds ( and their money ). It will also make the currently stagnant battlefield a lot more interesting.

 

FIM-92 flashes past your Shark. "Jeezus ****ing Christ! Where the HELL did he come from?!! " Slam down on the emergency fire button.

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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Yep. If you want to stay alive and make money, this is how you do it. Bringing in tanks and infantry will bring in the FPS / Arma crowds ( and their money ). It will also make the currently stagnant battlefield a lot more interesting.

 

FIM-92 flashes past your Shark. "Jeezus ****ing Christ! Where the HELL did he come from?!! " Slam down on the emergency fire button.

 

 

"Stagnant Battlefield"? Well it is what you make it. Owning all the Modules and having run missions that incorporate all of them as client playable, a well made mission is anything but stagnant. I don't believe you own all of the modules, so you have no idea what I am talking about since you have not experienced it first hand.

 

I have already hunted and killed humans in tanks in DCS... I would relish the thought of hunting you down in my Hog and blowing you to Hades...smiling all the way back to base.

 

It's not that hard... The human drivers are easy to spot since the always stand out in an AI crowd. Hide in the trees if you wish..doesn't matter.

This fun can be had today...But yeah, the terrain...ahhh the terrain...and a few vehicle cockpits would be nice...

That said...some friends and I have had some great Tank battles...and they have a hard time when I lay a TOW missile on them from a Bradley...We have some nice missions for this..but haven't run them in awhile...

We are going to incorporate the Huey and P51 into those... for some reason the Huey and P51 work well together in some of our recent efforts, and just fits softening up a target area before the Hueys bring troops in...

 

So yup Soldier AI improvement will also go along way since sometimes they do a great job hunting and killing the enemy troops and other times they just stand there not knowing what to do..when that happens I just pick them up and drop them in another area in line of site...then they usually have a nice fire fight and if I don't take too much ground fire, I will hop on one of the door guns and help them out. Way too much fun even in this early stage of our "World"

 

It will be interesting to see where it goes from here and just how long it will take.

 

Comparing DCS World to all those other Ground pounders, ARMA or World of Tanks is just useless...DCS is not going to be ARMA...Just like ARMA will not have High Fidelity Flight Sims incorporated into it. That would be a perfect world..but I don't think I will see it anytime soon.

 

FPS in DCS World? I could be wrong but I don't see that happening in my lifetime.


Edited by MegOhm_SD

 

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Lol, hunt all the human tanks you want. Its not the tanks that are going to get you. Its the INFANTRY. That's why tanks are backed up by them.

 

Can't understand why some people don't want a realistic successor to Arma. Its the future. Get over it.


Edited by Wolfie

"Isn't this fun!?" - Inglorious Bastards

 

"I rode a tank, held a general's rank / When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank!" - Stones.

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Lol, hunt all the human tanks you want. Its not the tanks that are going to get you. Its the INFANTRY. That's why tanks are backed up by them.

 

Can't understand why some people don't want a realistic successor to Arma. Its the future. Get over it.

 

Tanks were an example...pick a vehicle... how about a Strela or a Linebacker?

 

You would have a better chance...

 

Silly infantry..

 

We can target you and reach out from 8-10 nm with a vihkar...

Target and Mark you from 25nm+ with TGP norm, BH/WH..

Lock you up at 5nm with a Mav...Spray your position with the GAU

Drop LGBs on your position from angels 20K+...

Have a guy in a Humvee mark your position with smoke and/or lase your position...

We can call in arty strikes on your position..etc. etc.

Send in a column of armored vehicles to your position to engage

Lay multiple clusters on you from above...

Live JTACs doing 9-lines..just to bring you some overhead and up close and personal fireworks...

Hell I can even spray your position with mini-guns or a barrage of rockets from a Huey...

 

Keep in mind we usually have multiple ship formations are talking live in TS3 and can coordinate with the Guy in the Humvee.

 

I think it would be great to have what you describe...but I don't think it is great to criticize ED and this community for not having it.

Are you bashing the ARMA Devs and Community for not having Realistic Flight Simulation?

 

So bring on your infantry...we are ready for you if & when that day comes...:thumbup:

 

I am curious which DCS World Modules you have and are proficient in.


Edited by MegOhm_SD

 

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I think he has a point by saying it's a stagnant battlefield. In most missions (yes, even the good ones) the enemy ground forces usually just sit there and wait to be picked off, unless it's some sort of mission-critical convoy. Not a lot happens on the ground, even flying in the Ka-50 at least a good 75% of the enemies you'll see will be sitting still. Will more human controlled tanks fix this? No, unless there's a LOT of people in tanks, which isn't feasible with the way the servers are currently set up. That being said, being able to control a tank as a simulator as opposed to the way it is in CA would still be immensely entertaining, and would definitely benefit the DCS environment IMHO.

 

I don't think DCS should go in the ways of infantry, it should remain a simulator first and foremost. IF infantry could be incorporated into the environment in a realistic way that works that'd be great, but like you said we won't see a perfect world like that in our lifetimes. Besides, why would you hike for 2km when you could take a plane, heli or tank? Vehicles are much more interesting.

 

ARMA fills the FPS void for now, I don't think DCS really needs controllable infantry.


Edited by obiten
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Alright, you need to quit being an overly defensive jerk. If you can't argue a point like a civilized person and remain on-topic without implying insult, you shouldn't be here. Going on about how you and your wingmates can kill him in a tank is completely idiotic. Sorry, but that was just a little frustrating to read. Now then...

 

I think he has a point by saying it's a stagnant battlefield. In most missions (yes, even the good ones) the enemy ground forces usually just sit there and wait to be picked off, unless it's some sort of mission-critical convoy. Not a lot happens on the ground, even flying in the Ka-50 at least a good 75% of the enemies you'll see will be sitting still. Will more human controlled tanks fix this? No, unless there's a LOT of people in tanks, which isn't feasible with the way the servers are currently set up. That being said, being able to control a tank as a simulator as opposed to the way it is in CA would still be immensely entertaining, and would definitely benefit the DCS environment IMHO.

 

I don't think DCS should go in the ways of infantry, it should remain a simulator first and foremost. IF infantry could be incorporated into the environment in a realistic way that works that'd be great, but like you said we won't see a perfect world like that in our lifetimes. Besides, why would you hike for 2km when you could take a plane, heli or tank? Vehicles are much more interesting.

 

ARMA fills the FPS void for now, I don't think DCS really needs controllable infantry.

 

:doh::doh:

 

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Much as I would like to see infantryman you can 'play', I dont see it as viable in a sim this size. I mean an infantry battalion is what, 600-800 men? Try playing THAT on multiplayer.

 

You are better off simulating platforms. Now infantry attached to IFVs strikes me as viable, and Steel Beasts has proven that it is. So you move away from an infantry centric sim to one that is more combined arms based. Infantry company would have what, 14 IFVs? A battalion something like 50. Not perfect, but certainly more viable in my view.

 

Ultimately it comes down to terrain. I dont see a tank sim based on the terrain of georgia being very impressive. The Nellis range, well, that COULD be much better. Presuming the EDGE terrain system works as advertised.

 

I think a tank in a decent terrain system thats shared by combat aircraft would be viable. Certainly vs KA50 anyway. After all, inside of 4000 metres even attack helicopters can be vulnerable to tank main gun rounds. Particularly APFSDS.

 

Combined arms is clearly a step forward. But more commandable vehicles and more control of tactical units would be definately the icing on the cake as far as Im concerned. I dont want Arma. Steel Beasts with A10s and larger maps would be more my thing I think.

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I wouldn't go calling infantry Silly.

 

Pilots are so occupied flying and working their systems that it is difficult and near impossible to acquire infantry.

 

In preplanned missions this is made easier because usually infantry man a fortified postion etc.

 

In OEF and OIF scenarios the ground forces may only see the enemy once they are engaged. Only then can the JTAC request then direct CAS to the tgt. Meanwhile that silly infantry is killing your boots on the ground.

 

While the Russians were in Afghanistan infantry found out if they don't move they wont be seen by the hinds and MIs. They stood there with RPGs and had success shooting these aircraft down.

 

And last, there are numerous videos of gun runs, GBU-12, hellfire strikes and once the smoke clears (cue the Benny HIll theme song) This infantry is on the move. Sure some of these guys go bleed out somewhere but some go to live another day.

 

FYI

 

63

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