Ed June 2013 newsletter

[159th_Viper]

FC3 owners will NOT receive these improved (AFM) aircrafts, they have to pay for it (maybe at less price).

Basically they are making money from an update... what's next? We will have to pay to have EDGE?

 

:huh:

 

It's extra, additional content. You do not need it, but that's besides the point: Additional content requires additional resources. What, you honestly expect everything for free? How does one arrive at such a sense of entitlement?

[locoidal]

So what they did previously wasn't true in the end? FC3 owners will NOT receive these improved (AFM) aircrafts, they have to pay for it (maybe at less price).

Basically they are making money from an update... what's next? We will have to pay to have EDGE?

 

Internally, change the name in your mind to...

 

- "DLC" - EDGE

- "DLC" - F15

- "DLC" - Su27

 

... and so on...

 

this way we won't have problem to pay ;)

[msalama]

they have to pay for it (maybe at less price).

 

Riiight... so according to you our local car dealership has to give me a new ride this year because I've already bought a new car from them once?

 

Seriously, W.T.F. is wrong with you people? You steal your groceries as well or what?

[Wolf Rider]

 

~ what's next? We will have to pay to have EDGE?

 

 

Last word (quite a while back now) was those who bought into the A10-C Beta where the Nevada map, which was the catalyst for EDGE being developed, was advertised to be included but withdrawn won't, but those who didn't will, for the map... but as to EDGE itself - its possible we'll pay something, and for that its fair enough considering it is a ground up (excuse the pun) development project.

 

 

 

Riiight... so according to you our local car dealership has to give me a new ride this year because I've already bought a new car from them once?

 

 

 

different scenario and moot point...

 

 

 

I've never been a fan of DLC or 'pay for" incremental upgrades, because of the upsets (and gouging) it can cause... fans aren't cows.

If its a worthwhile upgrade sure... it has to be worthwhile though

Edited June 21, 2013 by Wolf Rider

[metheluckydonut]

I actually think EDGE and Nevada should be free. Future EDGE maps could come at a cost.

But right now it's like you have to buy the engine which makes the game run properly on your high end system at an extra cost.

[lxvanwyk]

Riiight... so according to you our local car dealership has to give me a new ride this year because I've already bought a new car from them once?

 

Seriously, W.T.F. is wrong with you people? You steal your groceries as well or what?

 

If you look at all the free stuff (terrain, models etc) downloadable for MSFSX you will understand why they are free.......No remuneration for the work done on these so the quality is poor. With DCS however you pay and you really do get your money's worth. Since DCS world and later UH1H were released I haven't even touched superbug or tacpack (and these are high fidelity very expensive payware add on's for FSX) once. That is truly the proof of waiting and then paying for excellent products and upgrades. Remember upgrades are just that. Your example of paying twice for a motorcar is not correct. You just pay additional for the leather seats, boot spoiler, alloy wheels etc which were not part of the stock release.

[MadTommy]

How does one arrive at such a sense of entitlement?

 

It helps if you are born into a royal family, but alas that is not possible for most of us, so the other option is to have everything you desire immediately given to your by your doting parents and it's a distinct advantage to be an only child. Or alternatively you might just have the nesessary genes that suite this personality trait! :P

[LostOblivion]

I also think it is a bad idea to introduce several versions of the same aircraft into DCS. From a product point of view it makes sense, but the game itself would become very ambiguous as to the meaning of, say, what an F-15C. It would lower the quality of the game if some future aircraft is called F-15C (AFM) and another is called F-15C (SFM), or parhaps even F-15C (<insert 3rd party name>) for that matter. It would clutter the game and make a mess.

 

I think ED should be very careful about who gets to develop a certain aircraft for their game, its features, so as to be very strict always having only one version of an aircraft. At least such a difference should be reflected in real life, such as a change to avionics suite, and so on.

Edited June 21, 2013 by LostOblivion

[Buzpilot]

The Next Eagle Dynamics DCS Modules

 

Later this year, we will offer:

A-10A: DCS Flaming Cliffs

Su-25: DCS Flaming Cliffs

F-15C: DCS Flaming Cliffs

Su-27: DCS Flaming Cliffs

This modules will feature:

1- Detailed 3D model (high polygon / high res textures)

2- 6 DOF cockpit

3- AFM

4- Lock On level cockpit systems

$19.99 USD at release

 

So basicly all other planes are put on the shelf?

[Grimes]

So basicly all other planes are put on the shelf?

 

Short term goals I believe. Anything beyond that is long term goals, which are probably still the same.

[EtherealN]

If its a worthwhile upgrade sure... it has to be worthwhile though

 

Well, if it's not - don't buy it. :)

 

FC3 pre-orders already got WAY more than what was originally announced, without having to suffer through the resultant price hike.

Now a set of products are announced that add some extras to that that were not on the feature list... and people feel cheated if they don't get it for free or if the pricetag is bigger than they feel the feature is worth? Well, then don't get it, you (apparently) already felt that the original feature set was worth it's money, so what is the problem? :)

[EtherealN]

So basicly all other planes are put on the shelf?

 

Important part of the thing you quoted:

 

"Later this year"

 

;)

 

Basically, no, F/A-18C won't come out this year. But it never was. It's way too big a project for that.

Edited June 21, 2013 by EtherealN

[BBQ]

i just purchased FC3 on sale thinking that that would be better than buying the forthcoming, Individual modules. My mistake was listening to the testers. Having been one myself, i assumed they posted info with extreme confidence, and would furthermore ask them to be careful when posting info in the future -- especially any info regarding pricing/licensing.

 

In the end, no big deal as i'm happy to support this product any way that i can -- but if i had been a student or something, i would have sorely missed that $29.95.

 

UPDATE: I just re-read thread and cannot find post that led me to believe that the FC3 owners would get individual module level updates for free - so either it was deleted or simply my mistake, and I misunderstood. At any rate (no pun intended) it's very clear now.

Edited June 21, 2013 by BBQ
Clarification

[NRG-Vampire]

So basicly all other planes are put on the shelf?

 

hopefully not - so lets hope in new external models and new 3D-6DOF cokpits as well (MiG-29, Su-33, F-16, F-14, F-4, F-117, MiG-27, MiG-31, Su-24 etc.) :thumbsup:

 

I will try to answer a few questions that have come up in this thread:

 

4- Other FC3 aircraft will be improved as well (like the Su-27, Su-25, F-15C and A-10A). When they are further along, we will discuss them.

 

Matt

Edited June 21, 2013 by NRG-Vampire

[winchesterdelta1]

:huh:

 

It's extra, additional content. You do not need it, but that's beside the point: Additional content requires additional resources. What, you honestly expect everything for free? How does one arrive at such a sense of entitlement?

 

We do not need it...?? Man we love flying these planes as realistic as possible. So we do need it. Otherwise you could also say we don't need DCS!!! And they know the fast jet lovers are going to buy it anyway because they don't want to miss out and because there is no Full fidelity plane out yet.

Yes i see this as a normal upgrade and not DLC. Because with DLC i want a full package... Not part of a package for the same planes where i need to buy another part a year later. And that for planes i already bought 4 times. The SU-27 even 5 times if i count Flanker 2.0.

 

You know for what upgrade i would gladly pay any amount of money for? One that actually gives you a sense you are in a war where your AWACS and refuel planes matter. Where you have to escort bombers or even supply planes. Or escort C5's that Para drop rangers deep behind enemy lines to cut off enemy retreat/reinforcements. A persistent war i can fly in with or against my buddy's and save my progression in that war and all stats for the next time. Not like the campaigns we have now for single player.

 

So what I’m actually saying is that i would pay a lot of money for IMMERSION. And that doesn't mean a campaign where you first play one mission than a second and another one so you have a Campaign at the end.

I love all the planes/helicopters combined ops coming out and such but there is not much meaning to it for me if i can't play them in a full scale war.

Edited June 21, 2013 by winchesterdelta1

[zaelu]

FC3 never had promised AFM... I know is still lock on at the core... and it was payed by many multiple times as LOMAC... FC (which is World now free) FC2... but heck... It integrates LOMAC planes into the new DCS World and we can play happily all stuff...

 

It had development costs and hopes that it will draw some money from "easy market" for hardcore niche... also... looking at the smaller discount it has each time there is a sale... it basically yells UBI at us...

 

So... ED made a little mistake maybe... not from my point of view but some people get spoiled faster than others. They put the new 3D models and 3D cockpits for free in DCS FC3... as a gift... heck... they put even weapons AFM in... not sure if it was promised that but anyway...

 

But now... some kids.. ... :D... they got almost all for free and when ED says: "Hey look... we basically want to part ways with UBI legacy... money leac... errr... legacy... mkay? So we want to redo again the planes from LOMAC and organize them in modules as the other planes are... So sure we will use the 3D models, the 3D cockpits, the Weapons AFM and will add also the Plane AFMs. And will charge 20 bucks for them (each probably?)." maybe they let the door open for another addon for another 20$ each for harcore systems simulations (2weeks/when ready/no promise)

 

And what do the spoiled kids say?

 

"OMG... we had all of this goodies for nothing and now for the last piece of the puzzle you want to charge us?"

 

C'mon... If you have FC3... I'm sure you can fly it without AFM... for free. If is so important.

 

So in conclusion... if for dropping UBI out on the next rail station means I will need to pay 20$ for next modules... Ok... 20$ means 48 0.5l cans of beer for me (no BS)... It's a sacrifice... but I am willing to make it.

[howie87]

The problem that FC3 owners are facing is that we've already paid for parts 1, 2 and 4 of this:

 

1- Detailed 3D model (high polygon / high res textures)

2- 6 DOF cockpit

3- AFM

4- Lock On level cockpit systems

 

Why should we pay $20 just for the AFM when we own 75% of each module already?

 

The obvious solution would be to make the FC3 upgrade $20, for all the advanced flight models ($5 per aircraft).

[Wolf Rider]

 

Well, if it's not - don't buy it. :)

 

 

hmmm, it could be me, but I don't recall saying it wasn't ;) Did I miss this somewhere? :music_whistling:

 

 

FC3 pre-orders already got WAY more than what was originally announced, without having to suffer through the resultant price hike.

Now a set of products are announced that add some extras to that that were not on the feature list... and people feel cheated if they don't get it for free or if the pricetag is bigger than they feel the feature is worth? Well, then don't get it, you (apparently) already felt that the original feature set was worth it's money, so what is the problem? :)

 

The "problem" is, I think perhaps you may have read a statement made with regard to DLC (etc) in general, as regarding this one sim in particular :huh:

[159th_Viper]

 

Why should we pay $20 just for the AFM when we own 75% of each module already?

 

 

On the contrary, the AFM is probably 75% of the work, if not more, ergo 75% of the module.

[EtherealN]

hmmm, it could be me, but I don't recall saying it wasn't ;) Did I miss this somewhere? :music_whistling:

 

My point is that it then becomes a non-question.

You mentioned not being a fan of DLC and "paid-for upgrades" etcetera, saying "it has to be worth it".

 

My point is that this is a non-issue.

You either got what you already paid for - which was the feature set already described - and then purchase additional features developed afterwards. Or you decide that the additional features aren't worth it and don't buy them, whereupon you still have the original features you considered to be worth it. Either way, I really do not see anything negative here, which is my point. There seems to be this idea that developing paid-for additional content is a bad thing by definition, as if the addition somehow removes from the original. Which is something I just can't wrap my head around. It's like being upset at the option of buying an extra coffee after you already paid your tab at the restaurant - would it be better if they said "no, you already paid, please get lost"? :P

 

The "problem" is, I think perhaps you may have read a statement made with regard to DLC (etc) in general, as regarding this one sim in particular :huh:

 

Point me to it? I don't quite follow.

[Rusty_M]

I don't see why people seem to be getting angry. Nothing is being removed from anything anyone has already bought. If whatever ED sells

is not worth the money in your opinion, don't buy it.

 

As an FC3 owner, I find $20 to gain an AFM a little steep, so ill probably leave it. Ill wait for any DCS module. I'm still largely happy with what I've paid for and what I've got so far.

[Wolf Rider]

My point is that it then becomes a non-question.

You mentioned not being a fan of DLC and "paid-for upgrades" etcetera, saying "it has to be worth it".

 

My point is that this is a non-issue.

You either got what you already paid for - which was the feature set already described - and then purchase additional features developed afterwards. Or you decide that the additional features aren't worth it and don't buy them, whereupon you still have the original features you considered to be worth it. Either way, I really do not see anything negative here, which is my point.

 

I wasn't being negative either... I offered a point of view on points of views (the juxtaposition)

 

 

There seems to be this idea that developing paid-for additional content is a bad thing by definition, as if the addition somehow removes from the original. Which is something I just can't wrap my head around.

 

again, with some (let me put this clearly)... with some (this doesn't, however, mean all), the fans are treated as cows - ripe for the milking

 

 

It's like being upset at the option of buying an extra coffee after you already paid your tab at the restaurant - would it be better if they said "no, you already paid, please get lost"? :P

 

another moot point... or, if you meant it as a hypothetical - what if they wanted to charge you for sugar, or to pour it, or to bring it over, or even to put it on the table??

 

 

 

 

 

Point me to it?

 

Interesting... I asked you that

 

I don't quite follow.

 

That's (respectfully) right, I feel you may not be quite following... I've offered all the way along; "if you want to fly it, buy it - if you don't, don't"

[Rusty_M]

Love the coffee analogy Ethereal. Strangely, that kinda happened to me once, except it was a Burger King in Zurich and it was chicken wings not coffee.

[BBQ]

On the contrary, the AFM is probably 75% of the work, if not more, ergo 75% of the module.

 

Ok then -- a compromise -- $10 per AFM for FC3 owners. I imagine the team in Moscow is trying to come up with a figure somewhere between $5 and $15 per AFM for FC3 owners. I hope so, at least. In any event, I'll purchase all of them no matter the price -- just wish I hadn't bought FC3 yesterday, as I won't ever use it/fly it -- buying it soley on the (false) premise that I would get the AFMs as a free update, at which point I would fly some of the FC3 aircraft.

[Dudikoff]

While there is discussion of making this available as an FC3 upgrade at a lower cost than the full module, I can say with confidence that they will not be made available for free given the large time and financial investment. When I am told the final decision on this matter I will post it.

 

IMHO, this would be a must as otherwise it would be unfair to the people who bought in the FC3 program to get the Lock On aircraft introduced into the DCS World only to see them abandoned shortly after that.

 

Just to be on the clear side, I expect to pay for the AFM modules, obviously. But, I'd like to see them integrated into my FC3 package for a price. If this is not convenient, I'd expect like a 50% discount on these modules developed from the FC3 package. Since no information was given at the time of the FC3 release that the aircraft from it would get separated out into modules and that the FC3 would be abandoned in a way, if none of these two things will be offered, I would feel cheated as the whole premise behind FC3 purchase (and there was no discount for people who already bought FC2 for example) was to get the Lock On aircraft into DCS World and to get them updated along the way.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Dudikoff