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aha! this is why the f-15's flies in a "gay" way..


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Quite incorrect. The F-1C launched a missile at the F-111, and that was mentioned in that show.

 

A MiG-29 locked up one F-15, forcing it to go defensive at relatively close range, but ate a sparrow in the face doing so. That too was described.

 

A pair of MiG-25's evaded long-range engagement and forced a close-quarters fight.

 

I saw no offensive manuevers too, 'cause I don't think those Iraqi planes were armed at all. No misslies on hardpoints! None of them tried to gain a firing solution as pictured in that show!

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The Foxbats made a critical error by going one on one WVR fight at low level. Their chances there were next to nill.

 

And what about that fulcrum that slammed into the ground? I wonder what the pilot was thinking when he figured out the americans would follow.

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You lose because you make mistakes. That was theirs. The fact still is they forced a close-quarters fight.

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If you take a look at History Chanell - Dogfights show you'll notice how strongly biased it is. I remember one called "Dogfights of the Desert Storm" where US Eagles shot some F-1C that was in pursuit of EF-111, couple of MiG-29 over H1 and H2 and came home to talk about it.

 

Interesting thing is that I saw no defensive maneuvers from Iraqi side, be it a poor pilot not even knowing what's about to happen, be it an old airframe missing vital parts after many years of embargo.

 

I saw no offensive manuevers too, 'cause I don't think those Iraqi planes were armed at all. No misslies on hardpoints! None of them tried to gain a firing solution as pictured in that show!

 

 

LOL... yes factual history- it's so biased. teh n3rv3!!!

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The Foxbats made a critical error by going one on one WVR fight at low level. Their chances there were next to nill.

 

Could be they only had R-60 operational.

Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.

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They would have to move into the F-15's tail for that. Since the F-15 was one of the most agile fighters in the world by then, and being the foxbaxt G limit so low mis sister could take it, I dont know how the Mig-25 could make it successfully.

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And what about that fulcrum that slammed into the ground? I wonder what the pilot was thinking when he figured out the americans would follow.

 

Those Iraqi pilots were probably forced into air by their commanders sitting in shelters. This describes general experience of Iraqi Fulcrum driver!

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Agree. What fight it is when enemy is poor, and after is glory what a fighter is good...

Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D

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I think obsolete avionics cant save you, and aerodynamic doesnt compensate that instead.

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Interesting thing is that I saw no defensive maneuvers from Iraqi side, be it a poor pilot not even knowing what's about to happen, be it an old airframe missing vital parts after many years of embargo.

 

 

In comparison with them Serbian 9-12 pilots had the totally opposite level in 99. They successfully used the lowflight and close range maneuvers with IR missiles against the outnumbered NATO fighters.

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In comparison with them Serbian 9-12 pilots had the totally opposite level in 99. They successfully used the lowflight and close range maneuvers with IR missiles against the outnumbered NATO fighters.

 

But their approach scored no kills, so launching a single multi million airplane with faulty systems just to keep commanders and population happy is a bad move too!

 

AFAIK, there were only a handful airworthy Fulcrums in Serbian army back in '99, JRV had 16 (14B+2UB) in total before 1991 war in Yugoslavia broke out and international embargo was issued so no spare parts were available for maintenance of Fulcrums ever since 1991. Most of the planes were stripped to "patch up" remaining 4 or 5 fulcrums that were "take off" capable. Disfunctional airframes were used as decoys, parked along runways on Batajnica AB luring NATO fighters into AAA range.

 

All Fulcrums that were lauched were shot down by A2A missiles, problem here was unorganized scramble. Pilot with the shortest straw was on GAI standby! With interceptions like that planes should work in pairs, not launched single like it was in Yugoslavia back in '99. Pilots of course knew they had no chance against 100+ NATO airplanes so best tactic was to take off, fly in general dorection of NATO planes, hug the ground and hide in valleys for 30, 40 min. This way pilot seemed like he did his duty, opposed NATO so no penalties from HQ could reach him! That's Russian roulette tactic!

 

IIRC the only Fulcrum that survived in this "glow and hide" tactic was launched from Nis AB, pilot who flew it had a great SA by knowing the terrain around Nis since he's born there.

 

Many Serbian (Yugoslav) pilots who flew Fulcrums during Allied force operation mentioned several crucial system failures on their airplanes. They mentioned that radars were "faulty" or not up to the task of discovering targets more than 20 miles away. Inability to aquire target! Chaff/Flare dispensers not wired to a switch in cockpit etc. Onboard AC/DC generators failed in 2 or 3 cases, leaving the pilot with battery power just to land his plane. SPO failed on almost every Fulcrum airframe that was launched so take a wild guess on chances of winning A2A fight in a plane like that!

 

Lack of spares, poor and rare maintenance, TBO prolonged by somebody's wild call are most probable reasons of this outcome but don't forget electronic warfare that might have influenced radar range and general performance of electronics on Serbian MiGs in Allied Force.

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Here in Croatia we have a similar problem with airworthy MiG-21bis quantity. (our top gun) ;)

 

There's like 24 airframes in total, but airworthy airframes are just a few, It depends if there's some celebration around we'll patch 'em up and launch 'em for a nice crowd overhead pass!

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SPO failures were not as prevalent, apparently, but that's perhaps rumour ... IIRC from a Serbian pilot's own interview, he said two airframes at least (the one he was in and another flying with him .. hey, a pair!) got warnings and begun evasions. In one case one aircraft evaded the first missile, but that pilot himself was hit because the warning was too short - apparently just as he was starting to fire his missile.

 

Perhaps there was something other than just malfunctioning SPO's going on ;)

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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SPO failures were not as prevalent, apparently, but that's perhaps rumour ... IIRC from a Serbian pilot's own interview, he said two airframes at least (the one he was in and another flying with him .. hey, a pair!) got warnings and begun evasions. In one case one aircraft evaded the first missile, but that pilot himself was hit because the warning was too short - apparently just as he was starting to fire his missile.

 

Perhaps there was something other than just malfunctioning SPO's going on ;)

 

Yes, the only pair that went up. One of them had a working SPO. That is the two 29s that ended up in Bosnia. None of them had radar.

As for the launch you are confusing it of another flight from the first night where one pilot evaded one, ended up within range, got a lock, fired and got hit moments after. So soon after actually that some think it was his own missile that detonated.

 

 

Several RTB successully (alive). One of them after receiving an amraam into the nose, the entire radome missing, and broken cockpit glass. Extremly lucky.

 

@Vekk: make that 20 km, not 20 miles (radar range)

Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.

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Several RTB successully (alive). One of them after receiving an amraam into the nose, the entire radome missing, and broken cockpit glass. Extremly lucky.

 

Is there any information on this? Officially, according to the USAF, all the MiGs that had AMRAAMs fired at them resulted in their eventual shoot-down. Three (of 6) MiG kills required more than 1 AMRAAM - three AIM-120s were fired by an F-15C on the first night to kill a MiG-29, another AIM-120 was fired by a F-15C on March 26th at a two-ship of MiG-29s before both Fulcrums were splashed by his flight lead and finally a couple weeks later 2 AIM-120Bs were fired by an F-16CJ that killed another MiG-29.

 

No other AMRAAMs were fired in the conflict AFAIK.

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I'll try to find the interview when I get some time (not soon.. busy making an SDRAM controller for homework :D and repairing my dad's old bicycle since my got stolen last week :mad:)

 

Wasn't there a dispute between F-16 and F-15 units about one shoot down?

Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.

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I know the interview nscode is talking about; one MiG-29 got away and landed after taking a hit, but it was not flyable after.

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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