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Tricks for raw speed


dooom

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Mogster raises a valid point, though--neither system is exactly realistic. It can't be, because our plastic gaming joysticks don't all have the wire. Current system unrealistically changes the position of the virtual throttle obtained when your plastic slider is at max. His proposed system would unrealistically disallow choosing MAP settings between 61" and 67". I prefer the current system over Mog's, but neither is a precise simulation of the real thing.

 

The closest simulation possible to the real thing would be to simply make input linear, so that setting the plastic slider to ~91% of its range (100 / 67 x 61) would set the virtual throttle to the wire, giving 61", and setting the plastic to 100% would give 67", and so on. When the virtual throttle went past 61" (i.e. the real and virtual throttles are both past ~91%), the virtual wire would be automatically broken. This would mean that the user would have no way of knowing when he's broken the wire, unless he carefully watches the virtual throttle or MAP gauge in the virtual cockpit as he slowly pushes his plastic throttle forward, but it would be the most exact simulation within the software--having a real wire across your plastic throttle slider would then complete the simulation thereof, making it more or less exact.

 

Needless to say, each system has significant problems--the problem with both the current system and Mogster's proposed one being that each works differently than the real deal (both in the software and in our hardware), and the problem with my hypothetical system being that you'd have no way to know when you broke the wire unless you had a real wire across your throttle slider, or were staring into the virtual cockpit while you slowly made the throttle change. For this reason, I don't think it would be reasonable to expect E.D. to implement each alternate system, when there's already a great deal on their plate.


Edited by Echo38
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Mogster raises a valid point, though--neither system is exactly realistic. It can't be, because our plastic gaming joysticks don't all have the wire. Current system unrealistically changes the position of the virtual throttle obtained when your plastic slider is at max. His proposed system would unrealistically disallow choosing MAP settings between 61" and 67". I prefer the current system, but neither is a precise simulation of the real thing.

 

The closest simulation possible to the real thing would be to simply make input linear, so that setting the plastic slider to ~91% (100 / 67 x 61) would give 61", and setting the plastic to 100% would give 67", and so on and so forth. When the virtual throttle went past 61" (i.e. the real and virtual throttles are both past ~91%), the virtual wire would be automatically broken. This would mean that the user would have no way of knowing when he's broken the wire, unless he carefully watches the virtual throttle or MAP gauge in the virtual cockpit as he slowly pushes his plastic throttle forward, but it would be the most exact simulation within the software--having a real wire across your plastic throttle slider would then complete the simulation thereof, making it more or less exact.

 

Needless to say, each system has significant problems--the current one and Mogster's proposed one being that they work differently (both in the software and in our hardware) than the real deal, and mine being that you'd have no way to know when you broke the wire unless you had a real wire across your throttle slider, or were staring into the virtual cockpit while you slowly made the throttle change.

 

But I think the main point to remember is that throttle full forward means different things depending upon whether WEP was engaged previously. If you are speaking about the relative position change of the throttle before and after...well yes you will not easily be able to stop at 61" without looking at your gauges but that would be in line with the behavior of the actual throttle.

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If you are speaking about the relative position change of the throttle before and after...

 

I meant that, in real life, pushing the throttle to the firewall will always give you maximum power--in the P-51D, out of the factory, this will be 67". Doing so will break the wire on the way forward--you don't need to make an extra step to break the wire, and merely breaking the wire won't change your actual throttle position (nor the throttle's firewall position). Both of these statements are true in reality, but not in the sim. In the sim, until you've hit the break-the-wire-and-firewall-it key, pushing your plastic throttle to the stops will only give you military power--61". Hitting a key to expand your virtual throttle's range of motion (and simultaneously adjust the virtual throttle's position to the new max) isn't all that realistic. As Mogster says, it changes what our real throttle slider's effect is at max (that is, what position our virtual throttle is when our slider is at max), something that isn't true in the real aircraft.

 

Again, I'm not blaming E.D., although I perhaps would have done it a bit differently (the method I described in my previous post). The problem is that we simmers (and sim developers) have to deal with two very different mechanisms: plastic throttle sliders (or whatever other gaming controller you've bound to the virtual throttle), and digital renditions of real aircraft throttles. The sim has to try to reconcile these two rather dissimilar devices. Meanwhile, the real aircraft only has the real throttle. None of the methods of implementation, actual or hypothetical, are entirely realistic (because of the unfortunate differences between the real aircraft throttle and the plastic gaming throttles, not the least of which is the wire), and it's debatable which are more realistic than others.

 

well yes you will not easily be able to stop at 61" without looking at your gauges but that would be in line with the behavior of the actual throttle.

 

You can easily stop at 61" without looking at your gauges in the real aircraft, but only before you've broken the wire. Might be tricky if your throttle friction is too high, though, and you're trying to shove it forward quickly.


Edited by Echo38
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Heh-heh, won't argue with that! My original wording involved the phrase "ham-fistedly," but I edited that out; back when I was involved with Rise of Flight, I took some flak in the form of accusations of elitism, when I threw that phrase around a bit indiscriminately. : D

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...pushing the throttle to the firewall will always give you maximum power--in the P-51D, out of the factory, this will be 67". Doing so will break the wire on the way forward--you don't need to make an extra step to break the wire, and merely breaking the wire won't change your actual throttle position...

 

I believe applying the necessary force to break the wire IS that extra step (that cannot be simulated on my "plastic throttle") :) and you would be stopped at the wire before that took place or maybe just short of it. Also once you did break the wire I find it hard to believe you would stop anywhere short of full forward. So, I'm having some trouble understanding why you think the button press is so far from reality.

 

I somehow think we are we are agreeing on this in an alternate universe.

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Also once you did break the wire I find it hard to believe you would stop anywhere short of full forward.

 

Right--if I implied anywhere that there would be anything that would cause this, I certainly didn't mean to. After the wire's broken, of course, only the MAP gauge would let you place the throttle at precisely mil power. (Unless you can feel the broken wire with your gloved hand--a point I'm not sure on.)

 

So, I'm having some trouble understanding why you think the button press is so far from reality. I somehow think we are we are agreeing on this in an alternate universe.

 

[nod] Our positions aren't too far from each other. My only objection is that "throttle to the stop" on my gaming joystick isn't "throttle to the stop" in the virtual cockpit, before I've hit that key. I would like "throttle to the stop" to be just that, all the time, just like in the real aircraft. However, as I pointed out earlier, I don't fault E.D. for doing it the way they did, and I'm certainly not asking them to change it. I'm just pointing out that I understand Mogster's objection (even if I don't care for his proposed solution), and that my preference would be for the simulation to be "accurate software-side," rather than having something not-quite-accurate put into the software to compensate for our plastic controllers being wrong. Really, not a point I feel worth arguing over--I just wanted to clarify my position, and point out that Mogster's idea isn't any more unrealistic than the current system.

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