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A-10A PAC Switch Implementation


ferriwheel

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IN GENERAL...NOT SINGLING OUT THE MEMBER IN THIS THREAD.....Its so funny when people say "...I will buy the ****** product if ED implement ***** function." Seriously? ED is going to go......"OMG! Guys.... this member will only buy it if we spend resources and add this crazy feature.... lets go get that 16$...even though he will probably wait and get it only when its on sale for 5$." Such excuses. A single sale is in NO WAY any excuse for ED to go and add your requested feature. If you really want a feature, support ED by buying their products at full price. Give them incentive and capital to keep progressing.

 

I agree...having used the C model with PAC, the A model feels very unstable, but at the era which ED modelled the aircraft, perhaps that version doesn't have EAC which is required for PAC? I am no expert, I don't know. But if the real aircraft did indeed have a two stage trigger with PAC (A model), then I think ED should consider porting that over to the A model. Although...they do have enough on their plate already with their future plans.

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Honestly in this thread my comment was due to my ignorance. I was about to buy the A-10A until I learned that it doesn't have PAC which, I understood according to this thread, is a feature found on this particular version. So I felt that an essential feature of the aircraft is missing making it unrealistic. If it's modeled correctly, EAC without PAC, then I'm fine with it and will buy and learn to use it as real pilots did.

Assuming that you have read my similar comments in other threads, Black Shark in particular, are due to my frustrating feeling that the module is abandoned by ED. Those comments there are provocative on purpose but that's another story.

 

So, does PAC belong in this particular model of A-10A or is it realistic as is?

I'd be happy to buy separate FC3 aircraft because that's my wish on the forum come true.


Edited by Griffin
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Problem with that (just like with what P-51D is facing) is most of the weapon systems in DCS outdate that era by far and you'll often find yourself in a practice target situation.

 

Hardly, almost every Russian ground unit in the game was introduced in the Soviet Union. The arch enemies of the non-computerized A-10A (Shilka, SA-6, SA-8, SA-13, SA-14) are all there, as well as its prey (T-72/80, BMP-1/2).

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Personally I would have preferred to have an even earlier, pre-LASTE variant. The A-10 that faced the Red Army over Central Europe and killed tanks in Desert Storm not only didn't have PAC, it didn't even have CCIP or CCRP. Bombs and the gun were aimed the same way as with a P-47 in WWII.

 

Agreed, was hoping for an 80s Cold War pre-LASTE variant, too..

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Exorcet can you find any reference to when exactly PAC was installed on the A version? My search yielded nothing. But I suppose you are right about the initial A's did not come with PAC because the odd location of the PAC switch, which seems like an add on.

George did it for me, but here's an interesting paper regarding the system:

 

http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/49944

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Problem with that (just like with what P-51D is facing) is most of the weapon systems in DCS outdate that era by far and you'll often find yourself in a practice target situation.

 

I don't see how that would be true. Certainly not having CCRP would limit your ability to use JDAMs but all the rest could easily be delivered manually, so long as they weren't WCMD. Fact is that the weapons themselves haven't changed that much since the 80s in terms of their complexity. The only really big change I can think of is the JDAM which requires complex positional and inertial data linkages for release, something the A never had anyway.

 

Now, its not like dropping Mk82s is impossible just because somebody made a computer that made it easier. Granted not having the CCIP would be the biggest set back for 95% of pilots, but there'd be a courageous few who'd no doubt learn to bomb manually as it was done for ages before LASTE and all its counterparts. As far as I know pilots still learn to do it manually, at least thats what a 21st Century US NAVY manual on bomb delivery implies.

 

And of course lets not forget that there's nothing stopping you from using the Mav, and the gun is still considered the primary weapon. So get good at manual delivery, work up some tables for your Mk82s and whichever CBUs you get, and really get used to map reading. :P

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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I don't see how that would be true. Certainly not having CCRP would limit your ability to use JDAMs but all the rest could easily be delivered manually, so long as they weren't WCMD. Fact is that the weapons themselves haven't changed that much since the 80s in terms of their complexity. The only really big change I can think of is the JDAM which requires complex positional and inertial data linkages for release, something the A never had anyway.

 

Now, its not like dropping Mk82s is impossible just because somebody made a computer that made it easier. Granted not having the CCIP would be the biggest set back for 95% of pilots, but there'd be a courageous few who'd no doubt learn to bomb manually as it was done for ages before LASTE and all its counterparts. As far as I know pilots still learn to do it manually, at least thats what a 21st Century US NAVY manual on bomb delivery implies.

 

And of course lets not forget that there's nothing stopping you from using the Mav, and the gun is still considered the primary weapon. So get good at manual delivery, work up some tables for your Mk82s and whichever CBUs you get, and really get used to map reading. :P

 

P*Funk sorry I didn't read your first thread carefully enough. I thought you were referring to pre-gulf war era (70's-80's). However are you positive that CCRP was not available for gulf war A-10A drivers? I'm a little surprised given the amount of cluster bombs used during the conflict. Without CCRP, accurate deliver of cluster bombs would have to be done with near vertical dives (Stuka style) ... Per reference provided in an earlier thread, EAC/PAC was introduced in 1990 in time for desert storm.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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P*Funk sorry I didn't read your first thread carefully enough. I thought you were referring to pre-gulf war era (70's-80's). However are you positive that CCRP was not available for gulf war A-10A drivers? I'm a little surprised given the amount of cluster bombs used during the conflict. Without CCRP, accurate deliver of cluster bombs would have to be done with near vertical dives (Stuka style) ... Per reference provided in an earlier thread, EAC/PAC was introduced in 1990 in time for desert storm.

 

I'm no expert on the history of the A-10's upgrades but what I've read of the -34-1-1 (Non-Nuclear Weapons Delivery) the references to CCRP seem to indicate that its for LASTE v6.0 only which I believe is a later 90s period upgrade. Also CCRP isn't required for cluster munition delivery, at least the ones in the A-10C module. Granted those are semi smart weapons, but without a WCMD they're no smarter than a Mk82 prior to their HOF and even then the parachutes don't have brains either. Even so, I don't think WCMD requires CCRP either, though I never use them so I can't remember clearly.

 

I think its pretty clear CCRP was absent from Desert Storm, though someone is free to contradict me. I'm however unsure if CCIP was wind corrected at the time of Desert Storm.

 

In any event, the bulk of the weapons available to the C today would be usable by an A from 1991 with the exception of the WCMD CBUs and the JDAM I'm pretty sure. Its just the variety and accuracy of the delivery methods that would suffer.

 

...I think. :music_whistling:


Edited by P*Funk

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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PAC in the A-10A has been enabled to always be on. This will included in a later update.

 

 

Great news Thank you. Maybe it should be tied in with the EAC switch. EAC on is required for PAC is it not ? Since EAC switch is now a real switch on the A10A tieing the PAC switch to it would be logical imo.

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I think its pretty clear CCRP was absent from Desert Storm, though someone is free to contradict me. I'm however unsure if CCIP was wind corrected at the time of Desert Storm.

 

To the best of my knowledge, CCIP was not available either during Desert Storm. Bombs were aimed manually with a preset depressable piper using the value of a bomb table, together with flying a specific drop speed, height and dive angle. The LASTE upgrades were not incorperated until after Desert Storm.

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To the best of my knowledge, CCIP was not available either during Desert Storm. Bombs were aimed manually with a preset depressable piper using the value of a bomb table, together with flying a specific drop speed, height and dive angle. The LASTE upgrades were not incorperated until after Desert Storm.

 

Yea thats interesting indeed. The A-10's finest hour and it didn't even have a computed reticle.

 

Those pilots must have been damn competent. Manual delivery, even with PAC for the gun. Most people in these parts seem to have issues with 21st Century CCIP.

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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Sweet, thanks! These FC3 aircraft seem great value with all the improvements and most importantly, realism. I found the lack of it as the biggest problem in FC2.

 

AFM + 6DOF pit + realism = I'm buying it!

 

Not sure about the Su-25 though. The cockpit does look really really sweet in videos. Oh well, maybe I'll get the Rook bug too. Really waiting for the T-Toad cockpit. Thanks ED!

 

IvanK; that SH*T in cyrillic is hilarious! :D Wonder what that "iii O" there is though?

 

PS Off topic question: How does the ILS work in FC3 aircraft? Does it switch on for every possible runway after you pass the approach waypoint as in Su-25T?

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Here is scan from the USAF Winter 1975 Fighter Weapons Newsletter. The A10A was then in its OT&E phase. Early Generation HUD symbology is shown.

 

Tanks IvanK, this is fascinating. If I am interpreting the pictures correctly, the major elements include a fixed gun cross, a depressable piper below it and a line connecting it to the Pave Penny laser spot tracker diamond. Correct?

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Tanks IvanK, this is fascinating. If I am interpreting the pictures correctly, the major elements include a fixed gun cross, a depressable piper below it and a line connecting it to the Pave Penny laser spot tracker diamond. Correct?

 

Yea that looks correct. If you read closely you'll see that those diamonds are referred to by LSS, meaning Laser Spot Search, I presume.

 

Most of that HUD symbology should have a clear explanation available somewhere in one of the declassified manuals floating around. Its mostly alien to me because I never flew the LOMAC or FC A-10A, but the history is fascinating. I would search it out but the manual I have that likely includes this is 400+ pages and is not of the kind where the words are part of the PDF, so its just a bunch of pictures I can't search.


Edited by P*Funk

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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