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Padlocking missiles is not cheating!


WildBillKelsoe
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I recently started using padlocking to see the missiles as their trail is not clear when you're on top of them... I don't think its cheating, same for zooming in all the way. What are your thoughts?

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It's cheating ;)

 

In RL you won't see the missile fly in without that huge plume until it's very close.

 

I recently started using padlocking to see the missiles as their trail is not clear when you're on top of them... I don't think its cheating, same for zooming in all the way. What are your thoughts?

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Not cheating.

 

It's a built in View feature that you can use if you want to. Like all of the View features.

 

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I dunno...looking at SAM launches in DCS versus SAM launches in real life, DCS needs better/more visible smoke. Most of the time I can only see this very faint, white, crescent shaped line off in the distance and that's it. Next thing I know I'm hit.

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I agree it could be improved somewhat, but part of it is situational awareness that comes with experience. Knowing your mission, and the details of the area you will be flying.

 

I dunno...looking at SAM launches in DCS versus SAM launches in real life, DCS needs better/more visible smoke. Most of the time I can only see this very faint, white, crescent shaped line off in the distance and that's it. Next thing I know I'm hit.

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Of course, in RL your wingman might actually mention an incoming missile from time to time as well. :P

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The way I see it, you have two things in hand.

 

#1 Imperfect representations of true to life visual acuity and their corresponding visual cues.

 

#2 Game conceits which allow you to compensate for #1 but which are themselves imperfect owing to their unrealistic design and imbalanced overreaching nature.

 

Using in-game FOV adjustment (aka Zoom) to compensate for the fact that the monitor does an extraordinarily poor job of representing a real pilot's perspective and visual acuity as well as his panoramic FOV simultaneously is not a cheat. Its probably the best compromize with the least damaging "cheat" quotient.

 

Using padlock is a notion that goes back to the old days of simming, probably before we even had joysticks with HATs we could use for snap views. I think its cheating. Its not just compensating for the human's lack of visual acuity, its representing situational awareness outside of the human player's. Rather than the human being able to see the missile and then track it himself using Trackir or some snap view, the game is letting you off the hook, letting you put no effort into finding it except via a quick button press.

 

I find things like padlocking give me bad habits. If I wanted to fly a WW2 game with padlocking enabled, why bother checking six and changing my flight path constantly to clear my baffles when I can press my magic eye-radar?

 

I'll argue til the cows come home about zoom being perfectly fine, but I don't dig it when it comes to padlocking. Thats a conceit too far in my opinion. That said, the bloody smoke effects ought to be better, even more aggressive than in real life if only because nobody flies around at normal human FOV when in the cockpit.

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the bloody smoke effects ought to be better, even more aggressive than in real life if only because nobody flies around at normal human FOV when in the cockpit.

 

But that would mean more cost of process to run the sim...

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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can padlocking be disabled server side? if its a setting in the game, then its only cheating if you're using it while it's disabled.

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can padlocking be disabled server side? if its a setting in the game, then its only cheating if you're using it while it's disabled.

 

Padlock is an enforcable option in the mission editor. Most mission designers enforce padlock = false.

'Frett'

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can padlocking be disabled server side? if its a setting in the game, then its only cheating if you're using it while it's disabled.

 

This can be seen in two ways. One considers cheating is doing something not allowed at all or localy, in sims is is mostly seen the way that cheating begins at actions that are not realistic. Considering the padlock as a cheat, is a bit hard from the term itself, if you ask me.

But as P*Funk said: it is way to easy to press a button. You dont have to care whether the missile is infront of you or behind... you'll know because you'll always look in the right direction. Without padlock you have to rely on your MWS and spotting it by frequently looking in the possible most dangerous area.

 

I guess the best solution would be an overexaggerated design of the smoketrails, so they can be spottet quite easily if looking in the right direction unzoomed.

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You can and should approach this from two perspectives;

 

One is, the question if its a cheat in a multiplayer server

The other, is if it is cheating in relation to a real life scenario.

 

In the first, i'd say its not, cause all players have the same ability to use it and hence no unfair advantage is gained.

 

In the second, i'd say it is, cause in real life you or your wingmen will still have to spot the missile inbound by scanning the area around him.

There's no buttons to press that will magically show your eyes an incoming missile.

 

And yes, i agree whit P Funk as well, keeping the above in mind.

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It's interesting to read this as I've seen the term "padlock" used quite a few times even in "Warthog" and "A-10s over Kosovo." The term is used in similar fashion to the ability granted by the feature in game-

 

I've never used it- much less ever realized you could just padlock onto an enemy missile and- if I'm to interpret what Falcon says above correctly- automatically steer my line of sight to it... Wow. Nevermind to padlock an enemy aircraft... I knew about the F5 view- but being able to do the same thing from the cockpit does sound attractive.

 

I would be a bit less stringent knowing that someone didn't have trackIR or something to that effect... and I guess enforcing the option boils down to feedback from your server regulars. Though some locked servers take the realism level to the next level (because that's what their membership wants), I think most users like to have their nicknacks- especially in the cooperative aspect of the sim.

 

When you start using force versus force type scenarios the rules change slightly, and just because one person chooses not to use the offered views doesn't mean the other guy is cheating because he does.

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It's interesting to read this as I've seen the term "padlock" used quite a few times even in "Warthog" and "A-10s over Kosovo." The term is used in similar fashion to the ability granted by the feature in game-

Could you describe this better? I have a hard time imagining such a technologically backwards bird as the A-10 having anything remotely similar to a button that tells you where stuff is based on no actual sensors but instead on a contrived awareness of the game world based on it being a sandbox run on your computer. :P

 

I would be a bit less stringent knowing that someone didn't have trackIR or something to that effect..

I just don't agree. Certainly having a Trackir is an enormous benefit to situational awareness but it in no way actually benefits the player like the padlocking feature does. I still have to swivel my head and use a good scanflow to maintain my SA and even if I were to put my head facing a threat that doesn't mean I actually acknowledge its presence. The padlock not only points you at it but it also gives you positive feedback, ie. its certainly there because it wouldn't point if it weren't. However, knowing something is off your left wing doesn't actually help you know where to look specifically so Trackir is a convenience more than a full blown advantage to this degree we're discussing. The padlock is basically a handicap for your SA. Trackir is just a boon to efficiency in the cockpit, allowing you to ditch the POV hat in favour of using your noggin'. Its a grand improvement, but still it doesn't really stop someone with good reflexes from doing the same thing mostly with the POV hat.

 

 

When you start using force versus force type scenarios the rules change slightly, and just because one person chooses not to use the offered views doesn't mean the other guy is cheating because he does.

Padlocking a missile in a BVR fight would certainly feel like a cheat if I weren't doing it back. Padlocking anything would be frankly. I notch his radar, but its all good, he can just use padlock to track me anyway.

 

I don't care how you rationalize it, its a game changing Situational Awareness tool. Maybe once we have an F-35 module and we understand how its new systems work better this would start to feel more realistic, but as it stands if the mind doesn't know squat and the computer's special SA button gives it to him for no effort, yea I don't think thats really anything similar to the other conceits we use like FOV zoom or Trackir.

 

Its just so gamey. You can say everyone can take advantage of it if it were turned on, but there are certain things that game away the fun of realism. Unlimited consumables, external views, and any other crutches, but mainly what padlocking does that fries my mackerel, is it eliminate one of the single most enormous and foundational aspects of realistic combat flying - maintaining situational awareness. That as much as systems management and ordnance delivery matters, much more really. For all your muscle memory using CCIP or your recollection of the correct parameters for a dive bombing run, if you can just snap to it and see it you're defeating one of the principle obstacles real pilots deal with: actually knowing wtf is going on around them and maintaining this awareness as they navigate the complex string of actions and decisions necessary to accomplish the goal as the situation mutates and renders your SA from even 2 seconds ago all but useless.

 

Now I'm not saying people are padlocking tanks and stuff, but if you could you'd basically overcome the need for a targeting pod most of the time unless you wanted to use PGMs. But versus missiles one of the key aspects of countering the threat is establishing a fix on it as quickly as possible then evaluating the action necessary and responding to in the short time til it has you. I can't imagine how much stress from the RWR beeping at me about a Missile Launch would be sapped away if I leaned on the padlock every time I flew. It makes me think of when I fly with friends and we're trying to find stuff visually, and you realize that the one guy who always knows where stuff is is using the F10 map.:doh:

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In reality, the brevity call 'padlocked' means "I am looking a this and not taking my eyes off of it for any reason, be that to check for speed, other planes, or whatever. I see nothing but the thing I am padlocked onto."

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I have found that for newer players padlocking seems to keep them involved, especially when learning the actual aircraft is overwhelming from the start. Those that are still learning situational awareness and how sams and missiles work in the game or real life, without trackir, appreciate the padlock, and I seem to be able to keep them interested longer if they can do so. DCS titles (A10, BS, etc..) are hard to fly, let alone go into combat with. So I understand the circumstances under which it would be used.

 

If you are a more advanced user, then you may not want to use it as it provides you with an added challenge. As ENO said, if the multiplayer server you are on has it enabled, then you are basically playing by their rules. It is a question of preference, not cheating. This conversation is kind of a moot point considering that DCS allows you play any which way you want, its up to you to decide. Determining whether it is cheating or not in any opinionated view can only lead to another degenerative thread that splits the community further. If you think its appropriate for you and you enjoy it as it makes your experience in game better, use it by all means. If it doesn't then don't. I don't see where cheating comes into play here.

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That said, the bloody smoke effects ought to be better, even more aggressive than in real life if only because nobody flies around at normal human FOV when in the cockpit.

 

I kind of agree but can't comment on reality. I know i have an easier time WVR with sam launches in Falcon than DCS. MUCH easier. But if i watch real footage of SAM launches, the plume seems pretty weak.

 

For comparison - watch in HD:

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I kind of agree but can't comment on reality. I know i have an easier time WVR with sam launches in Falcon than DCS. MUCH easier. But if i watch real footage of SAM launches, the plume seems pretty weak.

 

For comparison - watch in HD:

 

Only problem there is that all the launches in the third video are against a white/grey background and at least one goes straight into cloud. The plume looks quite defined and I'm sure that if you put a green background on it (as it would be seen from the air), it would be much clearer, at least until the motor burned out...

 

Having not seen any videos of those launches from an elevated vantage a point, it's impossible to say whether Falcon or DCS get it nearer to the truth.

 

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