mjolner Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thought I would try flying a helicopter to prepare for Black Shark. Heck, how hard can it be right? I know nothing about helicopters except what I have seen from watching M.A.S.H. reruns, looks easy. I tried to fly the Robinson R22 Beta II in MS 2004, yeah that was a joke. I just dont get the controls.I understand anti-torque pedals, but the throttle, collective and the cyclic I just dont get at all. They seem to work in unison but how I havent worked out. When you fly a fixed wing you let the power and lift do the flying and you sit back and enjoy the ride. Seems like with a chopper you have to make constant adjustments. I can hover above the pad and turn in circles (but once I start spinning I cant stop) any other motion results in an abrupt crash. From doing a little reading I found that modern choppers have computer systems that control torque which may help but the R22 is as simple as it gets so I think I am in for long nights of practice. Will flying a modern combat chopper require such complex micro-management of the flight controls? I hope not. It will be interesting to fly a chopper and kill tanks at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 "Seems like with a chopper you have to make constant adjustments." quite a good summary ;) Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth. Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind. All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikoyan Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 dowload The agusta 190 from simviation , it seems more realistic to me than the r-22. It is good idea to reduce the realism level to be able to control the helicopters in fs-2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild.Bill.Kelso Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I agree they should be easier to fly in games. I also tried my hand at flying choppers in MSFS9 and flying around at speed was fairly easy. But trying to land on a building was impossible for me. Just hoving in one spot is a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterj Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Iv'e also been flying helicopters in msfs, to warm up for Black Shark. First thing to do is to get rid of any deadzones in the joystick settings, I thought that made a big difference. Deadzones are useless in manual helicopters because center is never right :) , thus many helicopters doesn't have any centering mechanism. More about joystick- and realism settings, http://www.hovercontrol.com/artman/publish/article_23.shtml Anyway, after changing to more appropriate settings and having some practise it's still a b*tch to fly (hover) :) I can usually land it somewhere on the pad in good conditions, but sometimes you start do drift backward, and then you overcompensate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force_Feedback Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 In Black Shark you don't have to worry about counter-tourque, or collective, as the engines have fadec and the rotors cancel out the torque, and have the same speed when applying throttle, plus, the turnrate in hover is only limited by air resistance, could be the beginning of new "spinnig" competitions, getting the Ka-50 to do a hellish turn motion, at 20m above ground without crashing, or doing uncontrolled motions due to pilot induces oscillation. Man, that thing can do loops, hoops, rolls, tailslides and 3.5G turns, man, this could very well be the beginning of our (my) dream, a flyable Airwolf. Too bad it's only vulnerable to lasers... Man, I'm getting exited over a chopper, I should relax, cause at 15 fps, it would be challanging, but heck, I guess I'll be having a 3700+ by then, lol, if my grades are good enough. (which will drop exponentially after BS release) :p EDIT: omg, I said BS Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britgliderpilot Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Man, I'm getting exited over a chopper, I should relax, cause at 15 fps, it would be challanging, but heck, I guess I'll be having a 3700+ by then, lol, if my grades are good enough. (which will drop exponentially after BS release) :p You think a 3700+ will be enough? Sitting on the ground at Saki in an Su25T, my frames are already at 17FPS. However, that is with high water and high scenes. I think I've settled on settings to use with the Su25T and settings to use with everything else. Will probably do the same with the Ka50 - water to rubbish because I'll be flying over land, scenes to high (mmmn), and vis range down. Fingers crossed ;) See, I'm looking forward to this . . . . grin. I also have been fiddling with FS2004, and I'm getting there. I'm still not an ace chopper pilot . . . . will see how I do when BS is released :D http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/britgliderpilot/BS2Britgliderpilot-1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force_Feedback Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 You should try the Bolkow-105 (Bo-105), I'm still puzzled how the pilice in my country could fly them, those things are bricks with spining planks and gremlins for directional control. In fact, I've seen one at a police demonstration, and after inserting a SWAT (called Mobile Unit here) team, the pilot took off, and flew over a stand, and while taking off, the front skis were not more than a meter away from that stand, had he hit it, the birdie would surely have toppled over, or at least lose the skis. And those things are noisy, like the F-16 of helicopters (I guess Russian choppers are the F-18 of helicopter noise, but they do have a more humming sound) :p Anyway, it's a hell in FS2004, and I was doing aerobatics with it (yes I killed myself often). If you can master the Bo-105, you can even fly the real Mi-26. I plan to overclock the thing, with the help of a Hyper 6+ cooler (Better than most water cooling kits) Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suntrace1 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Until BS comes out, the best heli game for me was BF Vietnam - i could sidepark that bird anywhere, no problem. The thing to remember when flying a chopper is giving the same ammount of input also in other direction, to stop the motion. Countersterring is the tearm? Anyway, once you get used to it, it's a piece of cake, although my friend never mastered the technique. Part of the problem was his twist-tudder joystick, since you have to countersteer the rudder in relation of roll to calm down the motion of the chopper. Rudder pedals are a must, if you don't own X45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IguanaKing Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Mjolner, the very simplicity of the R-22 is what makes it so difficult to fly. The more complex helicopters actually have more stuff on them to help you fly them. I just tried the FS2004 206 and its behavior is pretty close to the way it is IRL. One thing that helps IMMENSELY for helicopter flight is your own, natural equilibrium, sense of motion, and peripheral vison...along with control feedback. Unfortunately, you don't have ANY of these things in a sim, so you become quite a bit more dependent on instruments. I'd say practice a lot with MSFS2004, because if you can become proficient at that, I'm sure that flying a combat helicopter won't be much of a problem for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harven Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I wouldn't say pedals are required to fly a heli-sim ... if you have a twist rudder.. what is so hard about twisting it... that's what our amazing wrists are for... and BF choppers are too easy to fly.. you can fall out of the air and smash into a hill.. just pull on the collective and off you go... Here's a tip with simcopters... Before playing, try to understand why things happen with input of the controls.. what are they doing? You use the 'rudder' ... the rear blades either spin faster or slower slow uses the main blades torque to rotate one direction. Speeding up the rear overcomes the torque and rotates that direction.. (btw.. this doesn't apply to the KA-50.. well not the rear anyhow) .... you can change the AOA of each blade of the mains... ... creating lift more so on one side causing that side to move up, and the other side goes down..say you push foward on the stick.. now instead of it pulling at the air straight up, it is now tilted foward pulling you that way.. now the more tilited forward you are the faster you will go in that direction.. but the less ability the blades have to pull UP.. the only reason you are not on the groun... So there must be balance. ok I'm done... And the colective controls the blades angle of attack for 'bite' .. like the adjusting the pitch of the prop in one of them little airplanes... throttle, in most cases is at a fixed point.. the stick controls the blades AoA seperate from the collective, it can change the AoA of each indipendent of the others.. so there can be more lift on one side or the other. Think of the throttle as always on.. as if your motorcycle's throttle got stuck at a certain point.. your bikes clutch works like the collective.. Ok I'm done.. :p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harven Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Oops.. hey I was just thinking as I went.. along.. I can't say that I know anything :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suntrace1 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Maybe you can control all the 3 axis of motion as good as i can with my pedals, but i would highly doubt that. When things got heated i (and a lot of twisters in BF:V) could never give the precise inputs for rudder and my tail was all over the place. Besides, BS is gonna be much more like flying a fixed wing. That's what ED said some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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