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[REPORTED] Fw 190 Cockpit Bar! (answer Post #173)


Krupi

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Late to the party, but posting in a legendary thread anyway.

 

Models made from factory drawings are, by virtue of the work process, accurate 3D representations of the original objects. So if the artist who recreated the FW-190 cockpit was a professional, it's pretty likely that the model is accurate representation of that particular cockpit that the drawings were made of.

 

There are, however, things that can change how the cockpit would be perceived in real life vs. in a game.

 

First thing that comes to mind is, like the cockpit model's designer said (quoted earlier in the thread), that when you render a 3D model to a 2D surface, you are doing a projection, and projections don't always necessarily fully correspond to what reality looks like. You could have an orthographic projection (like technical drawings), perspective projection (which is usually what is used in games since it's quite cheap computationally), stereographic projection or equal-area projection or whatever fancy you want to do. The point is, these things rarely match 1:1 with what human visual perception would produce in a real thing.

 

Secondly, again like has been pointed out in the thread, there are actual physical effects which are rarely modeled, but would significantly affect the visibility ahead and over the nose. Refraction, specifically. I feel people have been looking for a "clear shot" right from the view point behind the gunsight to get the "smoking gun" for the bar's existence that they've largely ignored the best picture to illustrate the significance of the refractive effect of the windscreen.

 

Here it is:

 

tenm.jpg

 

Why is this a relevant image? Well, despite being outside the cockpit, the camera is still pretty much in the same plane (elevation) as the pilot's head would be. You can see through the windscreen, you can see the elevation of the gunsight in the cockpit, and most importantly you see past the windscreen as well.

 

To gauge the effect of the refraction, you only need to follow the upper edge of this aircraft's engine cowling all the way to the front left corner of the windscreen. Do you see it yet?

 

You don't. And that's the point. You don't see the engine cowling when you look through the windscreen - and that's because the light you see coming from the "lowest" point on the windscreen actually entered the windscreen high enough that it was not blocked by the cowling.

 

The same effect has already been illustrated here wonderfully by some empirical experiments, so I'll just try to make an illustration of what's happening here.

 

87tq.png

 

Animated version of the effect at different angles of incidence:

 

lmv.gif

 

 

So, what can we make of this? It seems pretty clear to me that the 3D models of FW-190 cockpits are correct - the location of the outer edge of cockpit glass is probably exactly where it's supposed to be (notwithstanding possible design changes that may cause variations between specific types of aircraft).

 

It also seems obvious that the perspective and refractive issues are probably the main culprits to why the "bar" seems to be high enough to partially obscure the Revi viewport's lower portion.

 

The ideal fix would be to implement a refraction shader on the canopy glass; this would have the advantage of working from all angles of view and making the glass look like glass.

 

The not-so-ideal fix would be to alter the geometry of the cockpit model so that it would appear to pilot's eye position approximately how the pilot would have seen it. In other words, having the edge of the glass slightly lower so it doesn't obscure quite so much of the useable view of the gunsight. This can, however, be a bit of a problem because if you start making changes to 3D model based on making it look "right" from one angle, you risk making it look odd from some other angles. If it's just the cockpit mesh being modified, though, there's not that much of a risk of that issue.

 

Simplest "fix" would be to shift the gunsight and pilot slightly up... :P

 

...and the easiest thing to do is for us virtual pilots to just adapt to it and create firing solutions that aren't hampered by this "bar". It really isn't that big of a deal either way - we're talking about apparent location difference on the order of centimetres... if you're really pulling lead on something, a few more degrees of visibility on your gunsight's lower edge won't help - but you'll still be able to set up sideways deflection shots where the target travels horizontally through the gunsight, and you can track it all the way from your side windows. I reckon that's more or less the way the actual FW-190 pilots did deflection shooting because the nose gets in the way irrespective of the "bar" blocking gunsight or not.

 

Best post in this thread so far! :thumbup:

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no-darth_vader.jpeg

 

I told you, you have to shoot it in the head or it'll come back!

"Hurled headlong flaming from the ethereal sky; With hideous ruin and combustion down;
To bottomless perdition, there to dwell; In adamantine chains and penal fire"

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  • ED Team
I foresee Dora pilots who didn't read this thread RTBing and declaring in-flight emergencies because of the bar:D

 

I foresee Dora pilots that take the time to read this entire thread will need to head to a bar and have a number of drinks till they cant see the bar anymore.

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Vodka Martini, shaken, not stirred... by the canopy handle please.. Oh, and don't forget the olive.

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

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  • 1 month later...

I don't care too much about bar but i sure hope we got the new design lite version prop :D

 

fw190d9.png

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Late to the party, but posting in a legendary thread anyway.

 

Models made from factory drawings are, by virtue of the work process, accurate 3D representations of the original objects. *snip*

 

Finally! Nicely summarised. I can't rep you for this post for some reason, so give yourself a +1 internets in the meantime.

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Yes, this site needs some life. Even "bar fight" is better than total silence :D

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I guess this is the latest update, from 12-9-13:

 

"Work on the FW-190 is currently frozen because the programmer assigned to this is still working on the UH-1H. However, because the basic model created in the project is similar to the P-51D, the necessary aerodynamics data for it is ready to be replaced and turn the airframe into a Fw-190D, the engine is ready to be converted from Merlin to Jumo regarding the differences in blower physics and automatics. The guns are equipped with ammo based on historical ballistics and the synchronizers are written to obtain fire rate dependable on prop rpm."

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600k @3.40GHz | Motherboard: Asus P8P67-M | Memory: Kingston 8GB DDR3 | OS W10 | GPU: Sapphire R9 290x 8GBDDR5 | Monitor: Samsung Syncmaster 24" | Devices: Oculus Rift, MS FFB 2 joystick, Saitek X 52 Pro throttle, Saitek Pro pedals, Gametrix Jetseat

 

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I guess this is the latest update, from 12-9-13:

 

"Work on the FW-190 is currently frozen because the programmer assigned to this is still working on the UH-1H. However, because the basic model created in the project is similar to the P-51D, the necessary aerodynamics data for it is ready to be replaced and turn the airframe into a Fw-190D, the engine is ready to be converted from Merlin to Jumo regarding the differences in blower physics and automatics. The guns are equipped with ammo based on historical ballistics and the synchronizers are written to obtain fire rate dependable on prop rpm."

 

How did get to know that the work on the FW-190 is currently frozen ? Hope it will not delay the release of DCS WWII.

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Well i just hope they get that damn whisk Huey fixed soon so they can continue with Dora asap, at least for dcs world :)

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  • 1 month later...
30 pages of this s#!+ seriously??

 

Hey, this is nothing. You should've seen this particular handbag war back in the IL-2 days. Now THAT was an epitome of sadness! Hundreds of pages of pure BS :megalol:

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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