[REPORTED] Fw 190 Cockpit Bar! (answer Post #173)

[bongodriver]

It does slope away from the pit. Look at the pictures I inserted.

 

Not much,

 

Try drawing a line from the pilots view to the periphery of the cowling before it curves away, everything below that extended line is invisible to the pilot, for deflection shooting that's not great.

Edited September 28, 2013 by bongodriver

[AndyJWest]

I'd bet that Germans being Germans, with the likes of Karl Zeiss et al on hand, that screen would've been optically almost perfect, with very little chromatic aberration or other distortions. I'd presume it would be laminated with some polymer or other though? That'd bring it's r.i. down significantly.....

 

Poly methyl methacrylate (perspex) has a refractive index of 1.4914 at 587.6 nm, compared to glass at around 1.5 - 1.6. It isn't going to make a great deal of difference.

[MA_Goblin]

OK how about this one

[Gooseneck]

Poly methyl methacrylate (perspex) has a refractive index of 1.4914 at 587.6 nm, compared to glass at around 1.5 - 1.6. It isn't going to make a great deal of difference.

 

In terms of the amount the image was displaced by refraction, that would depend on the thickness of the laminates. Your average high myope would probably tell you that the relative indices of polymers to glasses make a substantial difference in a number of ways. Optical crown glass being of r.i. 1.523, by the way, with higher densities available up to 1.8 or so. Not sure what the r.i. of thermally toughened glass is, it's been a while.........:)

 

But anyway, for what it's worth, Krupi's initial vid showed a split second of a peculiarly angled view of the gunsight, and it was just a little black line across the bottom edge of the gunsight. Hardly worth this kind of lengthy debate I wouldn't have thought. :D

Edited September 28, 2013 by Dooyar

[Krupi]

Couple things, you guys do notice that nothing is functioning in the cockpit right? Chances are these arent real, pilot in the seat vids, but just a rough "alpha" look at the cockpit view, so I dont know that I would judge too much on this. Its possible position of the pilot will still be adjusted and such... lets not burn the barn down just yet....

 

As for the bar discussion, real world, pilot view photos of what you are concerned with and I will inquire into it, otherwise its purely opinion based, your opinion against someone else. You cant bring other sim discussions into this because this is DCS not anything else. Hope this makes sense? We need hard facts to submit bugs, not opinion, no matter how well versed someones opinion is. Photos of the pilots view, in comparison with the view in game.... see the problem yet? We dont have a finalized view from the pilots seat in Sim yet.

 

The gun sights, I believe they stated that they were going with this sight as it matched the one in the P-51D the closest, it was also discussed that the sight used on the 190 was in limited use and had dependability issues. That said, it was used in this aircraft, the devs have chosen this sight. Unless compelling evidence or information can be given as to why it should be changed, of which I cant imagine any... I would think that is the sight we are getting.

 

Thanks for the reply Sith, as I stated if its proven that its modelled like that fine but all previous discussions have shed light on it not being the case.

 

I thought that might be the case on the Revi, the D13 onwards was supposed to be having the gyro sight as standard I read somewhere.

[Nate--IRL--]

OK how about this one

 

Got a better version of this?

 

Nate

[Krupi]

I have a set of Fw 190 Blueprints, I will have a look.

 

Damn I don't have the Dora versions on me :(, sorry

 

But if you need any of the A series ;)

Edited September 28, 2013 by Krupi

[bongodriver]

something with eye position would be handy

[ishtmail]

I assume this is about the brown leather-padded bar which is in all the real-life cockpit pictures that people posted in this thread, and goes all around the top of the instruments panel, but is different in the FW-190D DCS model.

 

Compare this FW-190D-9:

 

with this DCS:FW-190D-9:

 

Obviously a difference. But maybe this DCS model is historically correct and some models were done this way?

[AndyJWest]

...Hardly worth this kind of lengthy debate I wouldn't have thought. :D

 

If you think this is a 'lengthy debate' you should probably look at the ones on the IL-2 forums. They went on for years. Hopefully someone can come up with some hard facts (i.e. a photograph showing the actual view through the windscreen) and avoid the same here.

 

As to whether it actually matters, anything that allows you just a couple more degrees downward visibility may sometimes be significant - it can make the difference between getting a deflection shot in, and not actually being able to see the target.

 

Anyway, the video was a brief alpha/beta shot, and as yet we don't even know if there is any real problem.

[ishtmail]

*** sorry, I was replying to the first page of this thread, didn't notice there were actually nine pages already :)

[NineLine]

Thanks for the reply Sith, as I stated if its proven that its modelled like that fine but all previous discussions have shed light on it not being the case.

 

I thought that might be the case on the Revi, the D13 onwards was supposed to be having the gyro sight as standard I read somewhere.

 

 

There is a D-13 about 2 hours from me, wonder if they would let me sit in the cockpit :D

[bongodriver]

There is a D-13 about 2 hours from me, wonder if they would let me sit in the cockpit :D

 

I reckon yes

[Gooseneck]

If you think this is a 'lengthy debate' you should probably look at the ones on the IL-2 forums. Anyway, the video was a brief alpha/beta shot, and as yet we don't even know if there is any real problem.

 

I know Andy, I was there too. I suppose my little posts in this thread have been a little 'tongue in cheek' shall we say?

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your second point quoted. :D:thumbup:

[NineLine]

I reckon yes

 

Looks like it doesnt have the same sight used in the DCS D-9 version...

 

http://www.flyingheritage.com/TemplatePlane.aspx?contentId=17

[Krupi]

I assume this is about the brown leather-padded bar which is in all the real-life cockpit pictures that people posted in this thread, and goes all around the top of the instruments panel, but is different in the FW-190D DCS model.

 

Compare this FW-190D-9:

 

with this DCS:FW-190D-9:

 

Obviously a difference. But maybe this DCS model is historically correct and some models were done this way?

 

DCS are using the EZ42 Gyro Gunsight not the more common Revi 16B.

[bongodriver]

Looks like it doesnt have the same sight used in the DCS D-9 version...

 

http://www.flyingheritage.com/TemplatePlane.aspx?contentId=17

 

 

No but it's the only one in the world that has the long nose, a nice view from the pilots position will still answer a lot of questions.

[159th_Falcon]

Agree, we don't need the sight to see if the bar is represented correctly.

[bongodriver]

Hilarious!......if you try a bit of internet research on this then every single interesting picture of relevance comes from the ubi discussion, all the same arguments and theories.

 

interesting picture here though

Edited September 28, 2013 by bongodriver
image link seems to die

[bongodriver]

a company regarded highly for their accuracy....

 

[Kodoss]

I have ordered the plans for the FW 190 from http://www.fighter-plane-blueprints-plans.co.uk/Sales-List-Inventory-Aircraft.php

 

When they arive I will have a closer look...:book:

[SlipBall]

Hilarious!......if you try a bit of internet research on this then every single interesting picture of relevance comes from the ubi discussion, all the same arguments and theories.

 

interesting picture here though

 

That's a good picture you got there...the date on it is also interesting, almost like advance preparation for any disputes :pilotfly:

Edited September 28, 2013 by GT 5.0

[Tone71]

Hilarious!......if you try a bit of internet research on this then every single interesting picture of relevance comes from the ubi discussion, all the same arguments and theories.

 

Ha, that's exactly what I found too! Cracked me up.

[horseback]

Are we at the point where somebody cites the Eric Brown book (or various magazine articles taken from it) when he describes flying the various types of 190 yet?

 

According to CAPT Brown,

The elevators proved to be moderately heavy at all speeds, particularly at above 350 mph (565 kph) when they became heavy enough to impose a tactical restriction with regard to pullout from low-level dives. This heaviness was accentuated because of the nose-down pitch that was evident at high speeds when trimmed for low speeds. The critical speed at which this change of trim happened was round 220 mph(355 kph), and it could easily be gauged in turns. Below that speed, the FW 190 had a tendency to tighten up in a turn, but above 220 mph, some backward stick pressure was required to hold the turn. (taken from Flight Journal Collector's Edition German Fighters, Winter 2011)

 

At the higher speeds at which air combat generally took place, the FW 190 (at least the Antons) supposedly 'nosed down' a few critical degrees, which improved the forward view a good deal. If this was also true of the Dora versions and it is modeled in the DCS Dora, the bar controversy could turn out to be a tempest in a teapot.

 

Personally, if there's going to be a bar in my DCS 190, it better serve Johnny Walker Black.

 

cheers

 

horseback

[bongodriver]

Are we at the point where somebody cites the Eric Brown book (or various magazine articles taken from it) when he describes flying the various types of 190 yet?

 

According to CAPT Brown,

 

At the higher speeds at which air combat generally took place, the FW 190 (at least the Antons) supposedly 'nosed down' a few critical degrees, which improved the forward view a good deal. If this was also true of the Dora versions and it is modeled in the DCS Dora, the bar controversy could turn out to be a tempest in a teapot.

 

Personally, if there's going to be a bar in my DCS 190, it better serve Johnny Walker Black.

 

cheers

 

horseback

 

Yeah but a pitch down like that isn't going to help a deflection shot.