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DCS: Spitfire Mk LF IXc Discussion


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They're certainly the standard tips. As excited as I am for the MkIX, I am a bit confused in that we have a plane that is not representative. 434 has never had clipped wings.

 

Have I read correctly that there are plans to incorporate both versions of the wing tips by treating the standard wingtips as 'ordinance' to get around having a second module?

 

Its already been reported, a while before you guys saw it ;) The stage the Spit is in, in development, they arent stressing cosmetic stuff like skins right now, it will be changed.

 

Thanks Sith.

 

The funny thing is, MH434 actually has had clipped wings, only not in 1944. ;)

 

I followed her history, and at some point while in the Netherlands or Belgian Airforce she must have been converted.

 

In the Belgian Airforce she was registered as SM-41.

This aircraft can be seen after a slight landing mishap here.

 

Clipped wings and long intake:

 

SM41-DBx-Coll-via-EDs-bis.jpg

Source: http://www.belgian-wings.be/Webpages/Navigator/Photos/MilltaryPics/post_ww2/Supermarine%20Spitfire%20IX/Spitfire%20IX%20SM41.html

 

Later she was sold and registered as OO-ARA.

 

Still clipped wings:

 

Spit-IX-OO-ARA-Oostende-1959-Andr%C3%A9-BIOT-A_0007.jpg

Source: http://www.belgian-wings.be/webpages/navigator/photos/civilpics/civil_pics_ooaaa_ooczz/Supermarine%20Spitfire%20LF.9c%20OO-ARA/Spitfire%20LFIX%20OO-ARA%20Cogea.htm

 

So, in some way she is the perfect subject, in case ED chooses to make the module with both wing types. :D

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Are you sure about that? That top picture has a the different tail as well?

 

I think maybe it is an optical illusion, since the rudder is turned?

 

However her history going to Belgian SM-41 is reported in two places:

At Airhistory.org: http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p063.html

 

and at: http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/birds/spitfire/registraties.htm

 

At Airhistory.org they also write that she is later registered as OO-ARA.

 

Edit:

Airhistory.org also writes "sold A Swire 'AC-S' normal wing fitted".

That seems to indicate that she has had clipped wings before that?


Edited by Sporg

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I dot think so... that looks like a different tail, but you could be right:

 

22SupermarineSpitfireTail.jpg

 

detail_spitfire_ix_19.jpg

 

I think it is definitely the lower tail on the SM-41 picture.

 

Anyways, have you seen this page?

 

http://www.mh434.com/

 

Yes, I stumbled across it in my search. :)

I didn't read it much at first, was looking for pictures.

And not really any from its Netherlands/Belgium years.

 

However, it gives a plausible reason as to why the plane could have been converted, both the wings and the intake:

"As H-105 - mainly ground strafing and light bombing missions - before crash-landing in Semarang, Java. After spending some time in storage, MH434 was repaired and flew again in Holland on the 10 March 1953."

 

Since she was mainly used for ground attacks, maybe they decided to clip the wings when she was rebuilt anyway?

Or they had some wings from another plane?

 

One can only guess, but worth investigating. :)

 

Edit:

Clue number 2: The Netherlands registraties page lists two numbers for MH434: B-13 and SM-41.

Maybe she was B-13 before the accident?

Could be interesting if it was possible to find a picture of her when registered as B-13. :)


Edited by Sporg

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Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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Is it just me, or does the MH434 not have clipped wings on this 1944 picture?

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=12902&stc=1&d=1074258153

 

Seems like normal rounded wing tips?

 

Additionally it has a short air intake here.

 

Picture is from this thread post:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?20097-MH434-And-Her-Many-Guises&p=253926#post253926

 

Same thread MiloMorai referenced to in his post earlier:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2446222&postcount=649

 

Here's a brief resume of MH434's career

 

MH434 LFIX CBAF.IX.5562 CBAF M66 222S 13-8-43 shot down Fw190 9-43 84GSU 15-6-44 ros 7-7-44 76MU 27-7-46 RNethAF 17-3-47 as H-68 WUL later H-105 BAF as SM-41 3-53 sold COGEA as civil OO-ARA target tug sold T Davies G-ASJV sold A Swire 'AC-S' normal wing fitted used as photo aircraft in BoB film extant G-ASJV reported M76 install [c/n 552?]

 

It's possible that MH434 had the short intake because it was built during the transition from the original style to the later Vokes 'universal' filter in the extended fairing.

 

Yeah, apparently someone in the Supermarine/Air Ministrz Designation Department figured out that he is only required to come up with random variations of Roman numbers and letters, not necessarily following any particular order, to get his paycheck. :lol:

 

He surely had some distant relatives in the German and U.S. Ordnance Department though, who had also figured out that the job can be further simplified by just designating every piece of ordnance as '18' or 'M 1', respectively. :megalol:

 

Actually, it had nothing to do with someone in Supermarine or the AM allocating numbers and letters at random. The designation Spitfire IXB was devised and used by pilots soon after the IX with the Merlin 66 was introduced (spring '43), thus differentiating the new variant from those powered by the Merlin 61/63, which was unofficially called the IXA. A couple of months later, the official designations of F, L.F and H.F Mk IX were introduced, yet the pilots, and unit record books still continued referring to IXAs and IXBs for months afterwards.

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Cool vid, cant wait to be virtually in his spot :)

 

 

One thing I hate about those videos is that you never get to see their hand movements. Another thing I hate is that young face and clear eyes but that's another story.

 

Beautifully smooth turns and rolls. Yo-Yo we're waiting :)

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Are you sure about that? That top picture has a the different tail as well?
It's an optical illusion, definitely :smilewink:. Weird anyway if she was overhauled to clipped wings and, E type weapons?

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Weird anyway if she was overhauled to clipped wings and, E type weapons?

 

Hehe, yeah, seems weird.

 

But on the MH434 page, they write that as SM-41 she "served at the Advanced Pilot School at Koksijd".

Maybe the gun barrels were just removed?

 

Another guess could be another set of wings entirely, after the accident?

(Which we don't know about, but which must have been severe since it sent her in long storage.)

 

Anyway, I have the feeling that some very interesting history is hidden in her Belgian or Netherlands years. :)


Edited by Sporg

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I dot think so... that looks like a different tail, but you could be right:

 

22SupermarineSpitfireTail.jpg

 

detail_spitfire_ix_19.jpg

 

Anyways, have you seen this page?

 

http://www.mh434.com/

 

The extended vertical stability helped improve the directional stability.

 

Post-war, the longitudinal instability was fixed in the Mk IX series by increasing the horizontal stab area to move the AC forward.

 

I hope he does not model a post war empennage.

Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize:

 

1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250

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It was a very simple job to change from a standard to a clipped or extended wing tip.

 

Ok, interesting.

 

Was it also simple to remove the shrouds for the cannon barrels then?

I'm asking since they seem to be absent from the SM-41 and the OO-ARA?

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Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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The extended vertical stability helped improve the directional stability.

 

Post-war, the longitudinal instability was fixed in the Mk IX series by increasing the horizontal stab area to move the AC forward.

 

I hope he does not model a post war empennage.

 

The Mk IX had no longitudinal instability issues, I'm pretty sure the only significant modification of tailplane size came with Griffon powered variants.

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A little muscle and a hacksaw.

 

Seriously, looks like a screw in this photo.

 

 

DSC_0085.JPG

 

Hehe, of course. :)

 

Was mislead a bit by a guy in the thread you referred to, who claimed it would be difficult.

 

But of course, a war plane must be simple or at least manageable to dismantle in all parts.

All makes sense. :)

 

Now, lets just hope that ED makes it just as easy to change wing tips etc.

Then, with the correct skins, we could have this plane in all her iterations. :)

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Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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The Mk IX had no longitudinal instability issues, I'm pretty sure the only significant modification of tailplane size came with Griffon powered variants.

 

Yep, the claim that Mk IXs were routinely fitted with enlarged tailplanes post-war is erroneous, with absolutely no evidence provided. Tests of an enlarged tailplane on one or two Mk IXs took place at Farnborough in July 1946, partly to compensate for the rear fuselage tank fitted into some late Mk IXs and late Mk XVIs. However, the enlarged tailplane did not become a standard production feature, nor was it fitted retrospectively, nor is there a mod number covering such a conversion.


Edited by Friedrich-4/B
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Yep, the claim that Mk IXs were routinely fitted with enlarged tailplanes post-war is erroneous, with absolutely no evidence provided. Tests of an enlarged tailplane on one or two Mk IXs took place at Farnborough in July 1946, partly to compensate for the rear fuselage tank fitted into some late Mk IXs and late Mk XVIs. However, the enlarged tailplane did not become a standard production feature, nor was it fitted retrospectively, nor is there a mod number covering such a conversion.

 

Precisely, had it been found to be a worthwhile/necessary modification then the present day regulatory bodies would be insisting the dual seat TR9's would have it, I fear we are witnessing another attempt at perpetuating a myth about Spitfire instability.

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Precisely, had it been found to be a worthwhile/necessary modification then the present day regulatory bodies would be insisting the dual seat TR9's would have it, I fear we are witnessing another attempt at perpetuating a myth about Spitfire instability.

 

Its very simple really - no Modification number (mod) from Supermarine means no such modification; it was the SOP, which anyone who understands by-the-book procedure should know well

 

This particular barrow of the Mk IX's so-called longitudinal instability has been pushed many times by the same person, both here and in plenty of other forums. :yawn::sleep: It's a bust.

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Yep, the claim that Mk IXs were routinely fitted with enlarged tailplanes post-war is erroneous, with absolutely no evidence provided. Tests of an enlarged tailplane on one or two Mk IXs took place at Farnborough in July 1946, partly to compensate for the rear fuselage tank fitted into some late Mk IXs and late Mk XVIs. However, the enlarged tailplane did not become a standard production feature, nor was it fitted retrospectively, nor is there a mod number covering such a conversion.

 

Ok, then the instability was never fixed. There were no design changes to move the AC and the stability Margin of the Mk IX remained the same as the Mk V.

Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize:

 

1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250

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Ok, then the instability was never fixed. There were no design changes to move the AC and the stability Margin of the Mk IX remained the same as the Mk V.

 

Bottom line Crumpp has never provided documented evidence of the IX's so-called instability; last time he was asked point blank whether he had documents stating that the IX was unstable, he said Yes - then got stuck in South America... The purported document on the Mk IX's instability was never produced. :smilewink:

 

Anyway, I'm not interested in feeding Crumpp's lone obsession with this non-issue, nor should this thread be diverted into further "discussion". :yawn:

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