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The hypocrisy on this site is unbelievable... Folks here crucify the guy and beat him unmercifuly because "We have to have an A-10 quality simulation or nothing at all!!" "There isn't enough information to do it justice, blah blah blah.."... Then these same geniuses have this great idea about "porting" some half-a@@ed FSX model into DCS and all kinds of folks chime in.. Oh me, me, me I want that...

 

What a clueless bunch..

 

Is this directed at me Dude? I supported the idea of the F35s being in DCS and even mentioned how its quite good to use such aircraft in sims like DCS and Falcon 4AF.:smilewink:

 

FYI though IMO the devs took on a massive task to model an extremely complex aircraft into a sim which is very detailed. Perhaps the better approach would have been to model something simple and then work their way up to the F35 or other multi-role fighters. Even ED has not yet made a multirole fighter and they are the devs who made DCS. As for Dino Cantennos aircraft they are quite good and very well detailed his T45C I use often for carrierops and I rate it as one of the best for doing carrierops alongside the VRS Superhornet. The fact that hes now using Tacpac on his aircraft is a good sign as hes making his aircraft MP combat capable and is the 2nd dev to do it for FSX aside VRS themselves.

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Is this directed at me Dude? I supported the idea of the F35s being in DCS and even mentioned how its quite good to use such aircraft in sims like DCS and Falcon 4AF.:smilewink:

 

FYI though IMO the devs took on a massive task to model an extremely complex aircraft into a sim which is very detailed. Perhaps the better approach would have been to model something simple and then work their way up to the F35 or other multi-role fighters. Even ED has not yet made a multirole fighter and they are the devs who made DCS. As for Dino Cantennos aircraft they are quite good and very well detailed his T45C I use often for carrierops and I rate it as one of the best for doing carrierops alongside the VRS Superhornet. The fact that hes now using Tacpac on his aircraft is a good sign as hes making his aircraft MP combat capable and is the 2nd dev to do it for FSX aside VRS themselves.

 

Nah for the record this remark wasn't really directed at an individual at all (Not you or Skatezilla or anyone else), the whole community really.. On one hand Kinney is basically runout on a rail by a whole crowd of pitch-fork wielding torch-bearers decrying the fact that they can only have a DCS quality sim and then once the guy is gone the same community laments the fact that he left and then talk about porting some other FSX model... It is all quite asinine really...

 

That kind of stuff frustrates the hell out of me...

"Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence."

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The hypocrisy on this site is unbelievable... Folks here crucify the guy and beat him unmercifuly because "We have to have an A-10 quality simulation or nothing at all!!" "There isn't enough information to do it justice, blah blah blah.."... Then these same geniuses have this great idea about "porting" some half-a@@ed FSX model into DCS and all kinds of folks chime in.. Oh me, me, me I want that...

 

What a clueless bunch..

 

Nah for the record this remark wasn't really directed at an individual at all, the whole community really..

That kind of stuff frustrates the hell out of me...

 

OK, so because few vocal individuals want A, while few others want B and disagree with A, it's good enough reason to call the entire community volatile, indecisive, stupid... ah well.

 

Do you realize that from the beginning there were people who supported KI, people who hated KI, people who were unconvinced but didn't want KI to cancel their project, people who want nothing less than maximum-fidelity sim, and those who are more than happy with FC3 quality (or less)..?

 

Sorry, but only frustrating thing here is your logic...

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OK, so because few vocal individuals want A, while few others want B and disagree with A, it's good enough reason to call the entire community volatile, indecisive, stupid... ah well.

 

Do you realize that from the beginning there were people who supported KI, people who hated KI, people who were unconvinced but didn't want KI to cancel their project, people who want nothing less than maximum-fidelity sim, and those who are more than happy with FC3 quality (or less)..?

 

Sorry, but only frustrating thing here is your logic...

 

Yep aware that many supported him and won't get into a debate about my logic as it is sound. Go back and read all of the posts as the situation was deplorable...

 

Not really concerned if you agree with the facts or not.. Doesn't change the reality of the situation..

"Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence."

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Not really concerned if you agree with the facts or not.. Doesn't change the reality of the situation..

 

Exactly, and the reality is that you can blame the community all you want, but this KI project was never really going to happen, at least not in the way it was presented.

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Exactly, and the reality is that you can blame the community all you want, but this KI project was never really going to happen, at least not in the way it was presented.

 

And your BELIEF of however you think a project should or should not be run does not mean it gives you the right to treat the man poorly... Everybody can be a skeptic and that is fine.. Hell I had my doubts about certain aspects as well but the treatment of the man was inexcusable...

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Exactly, and the reality is that you can blame the community all you want, but this KI project was never really going to happen, at least not in the way it was presented.

 

We'll never know for sure.

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won't get into a debate about my logic as it is sound.

 

You basically accused the community as a whole of running out KI although there were a mix of supporters, skeptics and bashers. I'm sorry I still dont get how we ALL contributed to KI leaving.

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And your BELIEF of however you think a project should or should not be run does not mean it gives you the right to treat the man poorly... Everybody can be a skeptic and that is fine.. Hell I had my doubts about certain aspects as well but the treatment of the man was inexcusable...

 

Actually, the business world is a fairly unforgiving environment. Some people might not be cut out for it.

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Exactly, and the reality is that you can blame the community all you want, but this KI project was never really going to happen, at least not in the way it was presented.

 

 

There is no use in finger pointing or blaming now, I think at the end of the day its equal parts on all sides... only thing we can do as forum users is look at how we interact with devs and 3rd party people and ask ourselves if we are being fair... I see demands for updates, sarcastic or rude remarks about updates received, and all around poor behaviour... we as a community can be a whole lot better... we should all be ashamed that a 3rd Party was driven out like this.

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We'll never know for sure.

 

Well, we can still make an educated guess based on what was seen. Making these modules is obviously a rather complicated matter and making a complex F-35 module even more so, thus it requires a certain amount of know-how and a level of professionalism which sadly IMHO KI did not show.

 

That they just packed up and left with no explanation yet currently only serves to support this.

 

we should all be ashamed that a 3rd Party was driven out like this.

 

Driven away, really? By whom? They even had their virtual squadron forming up here and people assigning roles there.


Edited by Dudikoff

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Yep aware that many supported him and won't get into a debate about my logic as it is sound. Go back and read all of the posts as the situation was deplorable...

 

Not really concerned if you agree with the facts or not.. Doesn't change the reality of the situation..

 

No need to go anywhere to read the posts, I was there as well and my point remains the same. There were mixed reactions back then as well as now.

 

The only fact here is that you can blame particular individuals for changing their opinions as they see fit, but you can't blame numerous individuals for having numerous opinions.

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There is no use in finger pointing or blaming now, I think at the end of the day its equal parts on all sides... only thing we can do as forum users is look at how we interact with devs and 3rd party people and ask ourselves if we are being fair... I see demands for updates, sarcastic or rude remarks about updates received, and all around poor behaviour... we as a community can be a whole lot better... we should all be ashamed that a 3rd Party was driven out like this.

 

THIS! :thumbup:

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Well, we can still make an educated guess based on what was seen. Making these modules is obviously a rather complicated matter and making a complex F-35 module even more so, thus it requires a certain amount of know-how and a level of professionalism which sadly IMHO KI did not show.

 

That they just packed up and left with no explanation yet currently only serves to support this.

 

 

 

Driven away, really? By whom? They even had their virtual squadron forming up here and people assigning roles there.

 

THIS! :thumbup:

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we should all be ashamed that a 3rd Party was driven out like this.

 

Like what? While I agree that overall manners of some people here could be a lot better, as soon as you start with business, politics, or anything else that involves public, you're bound to receive some negative reactions, often over-the-top and undeserved. That's the sad reality of our everyday lives.

 

We don't have to go much far for examples, just look at some real-life aviation projects. Many of them were bashed by hateful agitators back then, yet now they're known as some of the best airplanes ever built. So the bottom line is, you don't need only the skills to finish the task, but also the nerves to face the haters and prove them wrong. If you don't, you lost. Sad but true.

 

And please, be careful with claims like "we should all be ashamed" and the like. Who "We"? Me? You? The guy over there? People love to generalize, using claims like "Those Americans", "Those communists", "Those youths" etc., yet this generalization is a very dangerous habit.

 

Yes, I had concerns about KI and their project, but as far as I am aware, I've never said anything that should be qualified as offensive, demeaning, abusive or anything else to be ashamed for. If somebody should be ashamed, then those who said the things, not "Us".

 

As a member of this community, I'm only responsible for what I am saying, not for claims of other people I have no control over, who just happened to be members of the same community as I am.

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When someone starts using the word 'we', the first question should be...

 

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That they just packed up and left with no explanation yet currently only serves to support this.

.

 

Speculation, As for everything else, there shouldn't be any debate as to why K.I. Discontinued their development, the decision was made.

 

as for the Character attacks, Finger Pointing, and theories; they need to stop.

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I am trying to not name names or be specific, but I see a wide spread sense of entitlement when it comes to dealing with ED or 3rd Party developers, people think they deserve everything and anything out of these people, and can talk to them in any manner they see fit. So yes I am over generalizing and not saying that everyone is like that, but it happens more than I would like to see and by more people than you might think.

 

I also think its a cop out to say stuff like, oh well if you offer a product then you open yourself up to public criticism of every aspect of your life... while it might be a sad reality, it doesnt have to be accepted so easily.

 

The keyboard is a safety zone for people to act worse than they might in a face to face discussion, doesnt make it right, doesnt make me proud to see that here. But to shrug it off as just the way it is also isnt the right path... maybe there isnt a right one, but *I* am ashamed of how this forum acted towards KI, and *WE* should all feel the same.

 

 

 

Like what? While I agree that overall manners of some people here could be a lot better, as soon as you start with business, politics, or anything else that involves public, you're bound to receive some negative reactions, often over-the-top and undeserved. That's the sad reality of our everyday lives.

 

We don't have to go much far for examples, just look at some real-life aviation projects. Many of them were bashed by hateful agitators back then, yet now they're known as some of the best airplanes ever built. So the bottom line is, you don't need only the skills to finish the task, but also the nerves to face the haters and prove them wrong. If you don't, you lost. Sad but true.

 

And please, be careful with claims like "we should all be ashamed" and the like. Who "We"? Me? You? The guy over there? People love to generalize, using claims like "Those Americans", "Those communists", "Those youths" etc., yet this generalization is a very dangerous habit.

 

Yes, I had concerns about KI and their project, but as far as I am aware, I've never said anything that should be qualified as offensive, demeaning, abusive or anything else to be ashamed for. If somebody should be ashamed, then those who said the things, not "Us".

 

As a member of this community, I'm only responsible for what I am saying, not for claims of other people I have no control over, who just happened to be members of the same community as I am.

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I am trying to not name names or be specific, but I see a wide spread sense of entitlement when it comes to dealing with ED or 3rd Party developers, people think they deserve everything and anything out of these people, and can talk to them in any manner they see fit. So yes I am over generalizing and not saying that everyone is like that, but it happens more than I would like to see and by more people than you might think.

 

I also think its a cop out to say stuff like, oh well if you offer a product then you open yourself up to public criticism of every aspect of your life... while it might be a sad reality, it doesnt have to be accepted so easily.

 

The keyboard is a safety zone for people to act worse than they might in a face to face discussion, doesnt make it right, doesnt make me proud to see that here. But to shrug it off as just the way it is also isnt the right path... maybe there isnt a right one, but *I* am ashamed of how this forum acted towards KI, and *WE* should all feel the same.

 

Very well stated.. :thumbup:

"Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence."

RAMBO

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I am trying to not name names or be specific, but I see a wide spread sense of entitlement when it comes to dealing with ED or 3rd Party developers, people think they deserve everything and anything out of these people, and can talk to them in any manner they see fit. So yes I am over generalizing and not saying that everyone is like that, but it happens more than I would like to see and by more people than you might think.

 

I also think its a cop out to say stuff like, oh well if you offer a product then you open yourself up to public criticism of every aspect of your life... while it might be a sad reality, it doesnt have to be accepted so easily.

 

The keyboard is a safety zone for people to act worse than they might in a face to face discussion, doesnt make it right, doesnt make me proud to see that here. But to shrug it off as just the way it is also isnt the right path... maybe there isnt a right one, but *I* am ashamed of how this forum acted towards KI, and *WE* should all feel the same.

 

Many truth in those words here. Unfortunately, me or you can't make other people act better. The only thing we can do is that every each of us will behave in a way that he / she doesn't need to be ashamed of himself / herself, and hope that others will join.

 

If you have done your best to not be ashamed of yourself, then you can feel sorry that other people did not, but sadly, that's all you can do.

 

EDIT: Conclusion: You can be rightfully saddened and enraged that other people who want to belong to the same community as you do don't act the way you'd like to, and you should be, but being ashamed if you didn't do anything wrong is something different.


Edited by Rotorhead
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I am trying to not name names or be specific, but I see a wide spread sense of entitlement when it comes to dealing with ED or 3rd Party developers, people think they deserve everything and anything out of these people, and can talk to them in any manner they see fit. So yes I am over generalizing and not saying that everyone is like that, but it happens more than I would like to see and by more people than you might think.

 

I also think its a cop out to say stuff like, oh well if you offer a product then you open yourself up to public criticism of every aspect of your life... while it might be a sad reality, it doesnt have to be accepted so easily.

 

The keyboard is a safety zone for people to act worse than they might in a face to face discussion, doesnt make it right, doesnt make me proud to see that here. But to shrug it off as just the way it is also isnt the right path... maybe there isnt a right one, but *I* am ashamed of how this forum acted towards KI, and *WE* should all feel the same.

 

I share the same sentiment for the most part Sith. I got pretty annoyed with it as well and I jumped into the fray, because I saw some internet bullies lashing out personal attacks just because they got sand in the vag over an F-35, though I'm sure you mods didn't appreciate me doing it. But one thing I do disagree with you on is that I won't feel ashamed for the people who should be ashamed. To me that would be carrying a cross that isn't mine. Instead I'll sit back and chuckle that one of those guys is obsessed with the belief that I'm Kinney and is still fuming at me to this day. Worth it lol.

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I share the same sentiment for the most part Sith. I got pretty annoyed with it as well and I jumped into the fray, because I saw some internet bullies lashing out personal attacks just because they got sand in the vag over an F-35, though I'm sure you mods didn't appreciate me doing it. But one thing I do disagree with you on is that I won't feel ashamed for the people who should be ashamed. To me that would be carrying a cross that isn't mine. Instead I'll sit back and chuckle that one of those guys is obsessed with the belief that I'm Kinney and is still fuming at me to this day. Worth it lol.

 

 

Well I feel like this is my community as much as anyones and everyones actions here reflects on all of us, like it or not. The people that are attacked and chased away by it will hold that opinion of this community as they probably wont take the time to get to know the better side of us.

 

If someone at my company acts poorly, it reflects on our company as a whole as much as the individual. Obviously in the real world its easier to show the individual the errors of their ways, but in that one act of poor judgement, the person on the receiving end will probably pass judgment on the company and avoid doing business with us... if you understand what I mean.

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Well I feel like this is my community as much as anyones and everyones actions here reflects on all of us, like it or not. The people that are attacked and chased away by it will hold that opinion of this community as they probably wont take the time to get to know the better side of us.

 

If someone at my company acts poorly, it reflects on our company as a whole as much as the individual. Obviously in the real world its easier to show the individual the errors of their ways, but in that one act of poor judgement, the person on the receiving end will probably pass judgment on the company and avoid doing business with us... if you understand what I mean.

 

I understand, point taken :thumbup:

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To bottomless perdition, there to dwell; In adamantine chains and penal fire"

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I've bought 5 add-ons for this sim (well, one pre-dated DCS World, but is classed as an add-on), and the only thing I am entitled to is the amazing amount of enjoyment I get from playing. I don't understand the politics as well as the rest of you, but I still feel a great sense of loyalty to Eagle Dynamics.

 

Having said that, I am not at all excited about the F-35. It's a design full of compromises. I'm fearful of the day that it goes up against the T-50 or J-20 (or even Typhoon).

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