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DCS: P-47D-30 Discussion


Barrett_g

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520mph below 10k ft says manual,but i think it is still far from braking up.

I think no one volunteered to make this kind of tests.


Edited by grafspee

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I thought it was because pilots were crashing into the ground because they lost the ability to pull up when their speed got to high in a dive.

 

I think this was due to plane falling apart, often pilots did wrong things in compressibility making their dives more dangerous for airframe..

For example by using trim in attempt yo recover from dive.

Test pilots brought p-47 to mach 0.86 and live another day,

It is not like that every one is doomed, when you enter compressibility.

In p-47 main problem is that it is not possible to pull out until you are at low alt, if you are cursing at 30k and you see bf 109 at 20k or so if you dive straight down you will pull out below 10k ft no matter what you do.

You cant under boost engine so power on dive only. And with out the diving flaps you cant do anything in that situation.

P-38 was much worse 30k ft power on 15 degrees dive copressibility withing 1000 ft :P at least p-47 dive angle was limited to 45 degrees.

P-47 was definitely recoverable plane, p-38 was it as well, Pilot just had to have some experience.


Edited by grafspee

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Same thing. Compressibility is the cone of pressure that surrounds an aircraft. The higher the speed the tighter the cone. Eventually the cone is almost slick with the airframe, and the control surfaces become useless. This is why a major breakthrough in supersonic aircraft was the introduction of the horizontal stabilizer instead of the elevator. The stabilizer remains functional at much higher speeds.

 

So as you can imagine, as the p47 approached 600 or so miles per hour in a dive, the resulting compressibility renders the elevators useless. Meaning the pilot can no longer recover from the dive.

 

At least that's how Chuck Yeager explained it.

 

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Exactly this is why this problem is mainly high alt problem because there planes can easy reach those speed. From 10000 ft pilot has to really try to do it.


Edited by grafspee

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I think this was due to plane falling apart, often pilots did wrong things in compressibility making their dives more dangerous for airframe..

For example by using trim in attempt yo recover from dive.

Test pilots brought p-47 to mach 0.86 and live another day,

It is not like that every one is doomed, when you enter compressibility.

In p-47 main problem is that it is not possible to pull out until you are at low alt, if you are cursing at 30k and you see bf 109 at 20k or so if you dive straight down you will pull out below 10k ft no matter what you do.

You cant under boost engine so power on dive only. And with out the diving flaps you cant do anything in that situation.

P-38 was much worse 30k ft power on 15 degrees dive copressibility withing 1000 ft :P at least p-47 dive angle was limited to 45 degrees.

P-47 was definitely recoverable plane, p-38 was it as well, Pilot just had to have some experience.

 

 

K. Well I am not sure if I will get the module if the control surfaces fall of at around 510mph below 10000 feetlike they do on the mustang. It makes no sence to me.

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K. Well I am not sure if I will get the module if the control surfaces fall of at around 510mph below 10000 feetlike they do on the mustang. It makes no sence to me.

 

I wasn't talking about control surfaces,i had something like too hard pull in panic, something like that in mind.

For example when p-47 pilot tried pulling out in compressibility by use of trim, at low alt when compressiblity was passing away, plane would pull out very hard this could lead to making pilot unconscious, it could snap wing off too.

I think there is only one thing which could snap control surfaces like this, flutter.But p-51 uses balanced control surfaces.

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"At low altitude the P47 does not experience any compressability problems."

 

Page 25 of the P-47 manual states that 12000 feet is needed to recover from a dive in a P-47! So of course, you wouldn't be diving at low altitude.

The manual also says that above 25000 feet, pilots are not to exceed 400 MPH, unless it is an emergency.

This is an airplane that demands careful flying. It's a thinking man's airplane. You can't go yanking it around like a Spitfire or you're not going to get the results that you were hoping for. The plane wasn't for everybody. Not every pilot loved it. The Eagle Squadron became the 4TH Fighter Group when the U.S. entered he war. They had to give up their Spitfires for Jugs. They were not happy with that airplane. They were happy to see them go when they got their Mustangs.

The 354TH had to give up their P-51's for a few months late in '44 to early '45. Morale in that unit plummeted! They gladly pushed the Jugs off to the side when they got their P-51's back.

Even in the Pacific, one squadron of the 49TH Fighter Group had to give up their beloved P-38's for a short time. They got Jugs. They HATED it! After a mission in the P-47 a P-38 flew over the airfield. One of the men looked up enviously and said, "Now there goes a REAL airplane."

But, of course, some thought it was the finest fighter they ever flew. Guys like Bob Johnson of the 56TH.

It's not going to be an easy airplane to master. It's gonna take some work and practice. And if you just can't do anything with it air to air, hang a couple of thousand pounders under the wings!

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Ya I suspect a few will try the 47 and then rage quit when they have horrible k/d ratio and go back to spit or mustang. The jug is a mans beast and takes allot to understand and master it. Very much looking forward to the challenge.

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Ya I suspect a few will try the 47 and then rage quit when they have horrible k/d ratio and go back to spit or mustang. The jug is a mans beast and takes allot to understand and master it. Very much looking forward to the challenge.

 

Absolutely. I prefer to fly the birds that are harder to get kills in, it feels way more rewarding than sitting at the top of a leader board.

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You mean like the people who ragequit when flying the Mustang and ask for a Spit 14 so they can be competitive? Of course people will complain thats just human nature.

 

I'm sure it will be both better and worse than peoples expectations in different ways. Especially at the altitudes usually flown in DCS where that beautiful Turbo is totally useless. Either way I look forward to trying to make it turnfight anyway :D

 

Maybe we'll get some news tomorrow? Middle of may already and with Supercarrier coming on the 20th I do wonder if it will be pushed back again. Or maybe theyll just drop it on us like a ton of bricks out of nowhere before we know it in true Thunderbolt fashion :pilotfly:

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Just in case Eagle Dynamics is listening... once this P-47 is released... I will still buy a Razorback, a P-47M, and a P-47N!!! Keep them coming!

 

I would say that one jug will be enough for now :) What about P-38L ? Or other birds like tempest/typhoon, Me410,bf110

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Did the N see much service in WWII? I thought they sort of just barely made it into service in the pacific before the war ended. There were only 130 Ms in service so I'd rather see a Razorback. Wouldnt mind a P-51B/C either :D

9./JG27

 

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

 

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin

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Wouldnt mind a P-51B/C either :D

 

Or P-51H

I would go with P-51A Alison engine unit, B/C has same v-1650 engine.

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Just in case Eagle Dynamics is listening... once this P-47 is released... I will still buy a Razorback, a P-47M, and a P-47N!!! Keep them coming!

 

Well, I think ED creates basically only one version for every type. I would not expect we will see some other P-47 variants.

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I mean a 51H is sort of similar to the 47M/N. It didnt really see service in WWII. Not really interesting to fly IMO either as its then so much faster than anything else, and it will turn better than the 51D which can already compete with the 109 in turning fights. The C/D is also a bit faster and turns a bit better but actually flew in WWII.....

9./JG27

 

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

 

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin

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Not true, I will have to dig out the reference but Nick Grey of The Fighter Collection and ED has stated that he wants the BOB era aircraft in DCS and the 109 G6 was also mentioned.

 

Further more we already have the Fw190 Anton and Dora...

 

Fingers crossed we shall see a Griffon engined Spitfire or my personal preference the Typhoon and Tempest (Please, please, PLEASE ED)

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Just in case Eagle Dynamics is listening... once this P-47 is released... I will still buy a Razorback, a P-47M, and a P-47N!!! Keep them coming!

 

A real P47 is a razorback. The others are plastic toys.

Just give us a good one that includes water injection and the paddle blade prop.

Models D15–D23 I believe (earlier models were retro fitted).

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“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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Yeah, Tempest is no.1 on my wishlist too :thumbup:

Smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast! (Ken Gatward before his solo Beaufighter mission 1943)See vid here

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A real P47 is a razorback. The others are plastic toys.

Just give us a good one that includes water injection and the paddle blade prop.

Models D15–D23 I believe (earlier models were retro fitted).

 

Yeah I’d totally love the latest version of the Razorback! The model right before they went to the bubbletop.

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"A real P47 is a razorback. The others are plastic toys."

 

Said no real P-47 pilot, ever. Only gamers. The 56th fighter group liked the new models enough that they referred to them as "Superbolts." No vis toward the back and limited visbility forward due to all of the framing and the jury rigged bullet proof glass panel mounted inside the cockpit, in front of the pilot.

Plastic toys because they had new, better visibility canopies? Silly comment, really. Not even sure if you're serious.

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