Starting out (Joystick recommendation)

[enique]

Just starting out and looking to buy the things needed to get flying. Already looking to get TrackIR, just wondering what's a cheaper alternative for the TM HOTAS WARTHOG?

 

Anyone have the SAITEK X65F or a TM COUGAR? If so, how are they?

[Hawk_5]

There's a large list of what you could buy but budget is always going to decide in the end.

The Saitek sticks are pretty good.

There is also the CH fighter stick which served me well for many years.

The TH Cougar is another higher end setup but I've never touched one so can't comment.

Do you want a throttle as well? CH, Saitek, Logitech and Thrustmaster can help out here with a package deal.

 

That's a start for your Google searches. I recommend CH gear as I had the full HOTAS system plus pedals for many years and they served me well. I now have the Warthog system and it is very nice indeed.

 

Cheers,

5

[Fifi]

I hesitated between bying X65F (that i could find here) and TM Warthog (that i had to order on web)...but not for that long :)

What made me hesitate was X65F is a fixed stick (not moving at all)

And TM was way more expensive though...

But i climbed the step, and went for Warthog, after reading so many positives comments on it :)

No need to say it's the Rolex of joysticks :thumbup:

 

But before, i used to fly with a Logitech G940 (not in DCS) and was very satisfied too...until power broke down. G940 has FFB, and it can be useful sometimes, depending flown planes.

FFB isn't that useful for jets imo.

[Flagrum]

I have a Thrustmaster HOTAS and I would give it a rating of "100% buy!" - like, I think, every other owner here. I use it for - surprise, surprise - the A-10C.

 

I tried the X65F and it is also a very good stick. The quality is absolutely fantastic. Actually, I like the feel of the plastic (plastic sounds cheap, well, read that as "high tech polymere") a bit better than the cold metal of the Warthog. But it did not work out for me. It suffers the same problem, as the "real" force sensing stick when this technology was introduced to the F-16. As someone else already stated, the stick does not move at all. It gives you no real haptic feedback (besides unnatural pressure in your palm) of your steering commands. The F-16 pilots had at first the same problems - it felt unnatural. Until they modified the stick so that it does move a bit to give better feetback. If we could have that modification for the X65F as well, I would recomend it 100%, too. But as we don't, I strongly suggest you find a way to test it for yourself first, before you spend serious bucks.

 

I also have a G940 and use it for my helos. FFB is invaluable for flying rotary wing aircraft, imo. The stick quality is decent and feels good in my hands. The main criticism that many have - and which I share - is that it is a bit sloppy in the center. That does not influence the precision, but in contrary, due to lack of stiffiness, it is a bit over-sensitive around the center. But manageble once you got used to it. Also, with the latest firmware that problem was notably reduced (something of end of 2012).

[Taproot]

If you enjoy A -10C a lot and if you know that adwanced sims like the dcs series is the way you want to go. Save yourselfe the trouble and get the tm wh. Dont have the money, save up. In the long run you will save money on it cause at one point you will end up with the tm wh cause you want the best.

 

Also, the tm wh is so good that the price drop is minimal when selling it pre-owned.

 

You might even find it pre-owned yourselfe.

 

You wont regret. Ever.

[xxJohnxx]

To be honest, there really isn't a cheap alternative for the Warthog.

 

Independent of what you buy first, you will eventually end up with the Warthog, therefore making the Warthog the cheapest alternative for the Warthog.

 

Makes sense? No?

 

Buy the Warthog anyways! :smilewink:

[trindade]

The X52 Pro does the job quite well...

[159th_Falcon]

For pedals, these are the only way to go;

http://www.mfg.simundza.com/mfgcrosswind.php

Don't have em yet, but hope to win them soon.

 

Ill refrain from commenting on the HOTAS part since ill only end up criticizing the warthog and all that's wrong with it.

[enique]

Well thanks for all the comments. Another question I had was how is the online community, as far as people playing online? Is there lot of people online and is it pretty easy to get into a game?

 

Also what do you mean by the joystick being fixed? I mean it has to move to be able control the plane, right?

[enique]

For pedals, these are the only way to go;

http://www.mfg.simundza.com/mfgcrosswind.php

Don't have em yet, but hope to win them soon.

 

Ill refrain from commenting on the HOTAS part since ill only end up criticizing the warthog and all that's wrong with it.

 

I'm curious to hear what you think about the warthog and do you still use it?

[Flagrum]

Also what do you mean by the joystick being fixed? I mean it has to move to be able control the plane, right?

The X65F does not move. Instead it uses a technology called "force sensing": it detects the ammount of pressure that is applied to the stick. So you grab the stick and "try" to move it to a direction. The stick itself won't move, but the pressure you apply will be transformed in a analogues movement in the game. If you touch the stick lightly, it results in slow movement, if you press hard, it will result in more movement.

 

Those mini mouse sticks you can find on notebook keyboards to control the mouse (invented by IBM, I think, but widespread nowadays) use the exact same principle. You touch that "stick" with your fingertip and "roll" it in a direction as if it were a small ball/pea. The force that is applied to that stick due to that movement will result in an according mouse movement.

 

Quite intuitive for the mouse, but not so much for a joystick, imo.

[kontiuka]

I have a Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2. It's awesome!:)

Edited November 1, 2013 by kontiuka

[159th_Falcon]

Never owned one, had a look at it in the shop though.

 

Whit all the hype about it, was disappointed at first sight. Nothing like i imagined.

Feel wasn't any better either.

 

Recently some squaddies reported (minor?) problems whit there's.

Opened it up and found silicon vally, all plastic inside not half as decently

made as the outside.

Which is disappointing to say the least for the price tag.

 

That's my opinion at least, as such i'd say the X52 can do the same job, just as good for less then half the money.

 

Yes, its cool its an exact replica of.... But that's useless when your flying a KA-50 for whatever.

Hence i rather fly whit a "fictional" stick altogether.

[GeorgeLKMT]

Ralfi made a good video on some joysticks where he talks about downsides of WH as well:

 

[jj_pt]

I have a Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2. It's awesome!:)

 

Same here. After more than 10 years it's still working like new!

 

I've been looking at this Saitek for a friend. Around 50 Euro and it seems to be good for a beginner pilot.

 

8uBj9R4YBWU

[enique]

Yeah it seems that Saitek x52 Pro is the choice, I just didn't like all the negative stuff the guy in that video talked about. I'm going to shop around and more and maybe find something that fits my budget.

[GodsPrototype]

I hesitated between bying X65F (that i could find here) and TM Warthog (that i had to order on web)...but not for that long :)

What made me hesitate was X65F is a fixed stick (not moving at all)

And TM was way more expensive though...

But i climbed the step, and went for Warthog, after reading so many positives comments on it :)

No need to say it's the Rolex of joysticks :thumbup:

 

But before, i used to fly with a Logitech G940 (not in DCS) and was very satisfied too...until power broke down. G940 has FFB, and it can be useful sometimes, depending flown planes.

FFB isn't that useful for jets imo.

 

I had the exact same conflict. I was able to use the X65F in store eventually. Problem is, unlike actual force sensing sticks, the X65F doesn't move AT ALL. Force sensing sticks today, such as the F-16 stick or F-22 stick slightly move. It doesn't affect on the controls, it only allows the pilot to have a feeling what the stick's position is. Therefore, I put in the extra bucks for a HOTAS Warthog. I have never been more satisfied with any other flight sim hardware product.

 

Also, for the OP especially, the simhq on the HOTAS Warthog is really good, because it compares the physical apparence and accuracy of the HOTAS set and other sets. FYI, the HOTAS Warthog has the best sensitivity. Even if it is too expensive for you, that is the only controller I can advise you. It is extremely good!

 

http://www.simhq.com/_technology3/technology_174a.html

[Irregular programming]

I had the exact same conflict. I was able to use the X65F in store eventually. Problem is, unlike actual force sensing sticks, the X65F doesn't move AT ALL. Force sensing sticks today, such as the F-16 stick or F-22 stick slightly move. It doesn't affect on the controls, it only allows the pilot to have a feeling what the stick's position is. Therefore, I put in the extra bucks for a HOTAS Warthog. I have never been more satisfied with any other flight sim hardware product.

 

Also, for the OP especially, the simhq on the HOTAS Warthog is really good, because it compares the physical apparence and accuracy of the HOTAS set and other sets. FYI, the HOTAS Warthog has the best sensitivity. Even if it is too expensive for you, that is the only controller I can advise you. It is extremely good!

 

http://www.simhq.com/_technology3/technology_174a.html

 

I have an old cougar with a force sensing mod and I love it.

 

It's also completely stiff and I can't see the stick not moving as a problem at all, to the contrary it felt way better than a conventional stick and is why I am not buying a warthog. But I guess it's up to each and everyone what they feel is the best.

 

But for anyone buying a new stick, a WH is probably to recommend. But of course it's also way more expensive than most want to spend on a joystick.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Irregular programming

[kk0425]

Force sensing is good if you want more realism for an F-16.

[Flagrum]

I have an old cougar with a force sensing mod and I love it.

 

It's also completely stiff and I can't see the stick not moving as a problem at all, to the contrary it felt way better than a conventional stick and is why I am not buying a warthog. But I guess it's up to each and everyone what they feel is the best.

Testing it was an interesting experience. I found it quite intriguing to a degree that I could steer the plane just with my mind when I had set the sensitivty to maximum. I only had to think about where I wanted to steer without applying any (feelable) force to the stick at all. LOL. It was so sensitive that the tiniest movements were detected, movements that one normally wouldn't even consciously notice, let alone see.

 

But I could not getting used to it in the end. Either I had to use too much force which was starting to become very uncomfortable very quickly, or it was too sensitive so that I could not even rest my wrist on the wrist support without steering the plane all over the place. I just found no middle ground for the force sensing sensibility.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Flagrum

[sapounas]

My honest opinion:

 

built your own joyskick/collective/rudder.

 

I own a t1600 TM it's good, but not like the real thing.

Now I am building a UH-1 collective and after the dual thrittle Warthog. i will post results DIY you know...

[WildBillKelsoe]

If you can spend upto 300 bucks on a setup, excluding trackIR, get CH products.

[algerad3]

I have the x-65... As others have said it does take a little while to get used to but once you get the hang of it it is a good stick/throttle combo. I like the fact that I can attach a few Flight instrument panels on the throttle/force control.

You have four adjustable settings that you can change on the fly using the front pane buttons on the throttle panel.

Cool stick works well.... Just adjust the pressure settings and go!!!!

 

Just My two cents.

[Picksplitter]

I agonized over the cost for years re: Thrustmaster. Finally bought one and realized.... if'd have done it to begin with, it would have long since been paid off! It is the single best investment for my pit I've ever made... although, IR Tracker runs a close 2nd.

 

Best advice I can give is 'just do it', go for the gold and buy Thrustmaster :thumbup:

[enique]

Well right now I'm leaning towards the CH Products setup (Pro Peddles, Fighterstick, and Pro Throttle). They look so dated though, but there is lot of good reviews and seems to have a mass amount of buttons to program. So far seems like the best alternative. What do you guys think? Are they still recognized by most newer sims on the market?

 

PS: Thanks for all the help and guidance guys, much appreciated. :thumbup: