Test: Setting CPU Affinity

[danilop]

I think that Lomonosov can provide enough World class parallel computing PhDs. So it should be doable for DCS to become multithreaded if they decide to do it.

 

The biggest hurdle I see is MONEY (small market) and monopoly position which ED holds - we can't just go out and buy competing full blown multi-threaded study flight simulator which runs on 12 threads, can we? ;)

[SkateZilla]

Yea, maybe this trick would work better with Windows XP, but here it fails to produce improved results, but tends to do the opposite on most CPUs.

 

I also tried it on the same CPU with the same effect, in fact, it introduced stutters that I did not have.

 

I do not have the stutters everyone's talking about.

Not during heavy minigun usage on UH-1 or P-51.

Not the moment a bomb, any bomb, explodes.

Never.

 

I fly daily online with many players and none of that I'm experiencing.

Neither I disconnect or crash with many players since 1.2.7 update1.

Or even feel like there's any lag or anything wrong.

 

I can tell you why, as I've said before.

 

Try this:

 

1. Get SSD (good one 500MB/sec+ read/write) for both OS and DCS. Set it up correctly with AHCI in BIOS. Defrag Off, etc.

Forget about RAID 0, it's 70s technology.

(Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks - old term when HDDs were expensive..)

 

2. Tweak your RAM and its timings and voltage.

Timings is more important than Mhz speed. Use lowest timings you can.

Do research. Know your RAM.

 

3. Sound. Very important. Disable on-board sound chip in BIOS.

Get a PCI/PCIe Sound Card like Sound Blaster, even an old one is better than the on-board one that interrupts and utilizes your CPU.

Even a USB based sound system will use the CPU and lag because of the latencies and interrupts involved.

 

Some will say "oh no, no way, my $300 mobo has great sound!".

But it takes 100s extra clock cycles to produce the same quality sound.

How many cannon rounds are in a second? Each has to sound.

Do the math. Stutter..stutter..

 

And any USB device is made for convenience forth and foremost and NOT performance..

 

I have setup two systems that are quite different and are not new but both upgraded to meet the above criteria and no stutters, absolutely none, not with A-10C TGP, not with Ka-50 Shkval, set to 1024 Every Frame. Just smooth. Fast load times.. 60fps (maxfps=60)

I can go on. DCS plays like a charm.

 

So, there's no reason why you having spent thousands of dollars on your rigs should not be able to fly without getting frustrated with its performance.

 

Just saying..

 

:music_whistling:

 

 

That's an over reaching list of advice. you'd have to spend close to $500.

 

As I said in the first post, it's not to be used to get an instant FPS boost. and wont work with everyone.

 

SSDs will improve loading times and some Spooling times, and Stuttering when spooling, but only if you're setting your GFX Above what your system can handle.

 

With my settings I dont get any stuttering at all from a WD Black 1.5 TB Drive.

 

As for Ram, My RAM is Pretty much stock settings with AMD Profile loaded into the BIOS, Dropping CAS timings 1 to 2 points, or jumping from DDR3-1600 to DDR1866 wont give you any FPS increase, and results will only be seen in Synthetic Tests.

 

Dont knock RAID, it's no where near the same Technology as 70s Raid.

 

Only difference you'll see between OnBoard and PCIe/PCI Sound is availible features to tweak the output (effects, EQ whatever), XAudio2 Runs on a CPU Thread and simply uses the Audio Output, no Audio Rendering is done on the Sound Cards SPU.

If OnBoard Sound is giving you Stutters/Problems, Suggest you check your Hardware profiles, as for your CPU Cycles Comment, Even PCIe/PCI Devices Use CPU Cycles and memory lanes.

Edited January 4, 2014 by SkateZilla

[doveman]

Yea, maybe this trick would work better with Windows XP, but here it fails to produce improved results, but tends to do the opposite on most CPUs.

 

I also tried it on the same CPU with the same effect, in fact, it introduced stutters that I did not have.

 

I do not have the stutters everyone's talking about.

Not during heavy minigun usage on UH-1 or P-51.

Not the moment a bomb, any bomb, explodes.

Never.

 

I fly daily online with many players and none of that I'm experiencing.

Neither I disconnect or crash with many players since 1.2.7 update1.

Or even feel like there's any lag or anything wrong.

 

I can tell you why, as I've said before.

 

Try this:

 

1. Get SSD (good one 500MB/sec+ read/write) for both OS and DCS. Set it up correctly with AHCI in BIOS. Defrag Off, etc.

Forget about RAID 0, it's 70s technology.

(Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks - old term when HDDs were expensive..)

 

2. Tweak your RAM and its timings and voltage.

Timings is more important than Mhz speed. Use lowest timings you can.

Do research. Know your RAM.

 

3. Sound. Very important. Disable on-board sound chip in BIOS.

Get a PCI/PCIe Sound Card like Sound Blaster, even an old one is better than the on-board one that interrupts and utilizes your CPU.

Even a USB based sound system will use the CPU and lag because of the latencies and interrupts involved.

 

Some will say "oh no, no way, my $300 mobo has great sound!".

But it takes 100s extra clock cycles to produce the same quality sound.

How many cannon rounds are in a second? Each has to sound.

Do the math. Stutter..stutter..

 

And any USB device is made for convenience forth and foremost and NOT performance..

 

I have setup two systems that are quite different and are not new but both upgraded to meet the above criteria and no stutters, absolutely none, not with A-10C TGP, not with Ka-50 Shkval, set to 1024 Every Frame. Just smooth. Fast load times.. 60fps (maxfps=60)

I can go on. DCS plays like a charm.

 

So, there's no reason why you having spent thousands of dollars on your rigs should not be able to fly without getting frustrated with its performance.

 

Just saying..

 

:music_whistling:

 

Well I got a SSD recently and I still can't play DCSW as when the objects increase, the fps drops massively, so I might start at a FARP with 10 objects and 40fps, then as I fly and the objects increase, it drops to 17-19fps, as shown here http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=107551&page=6

[Wolf Rider]

@ Doveman...

 

silly I know, but test again using just a single monitor, no head tracker, Page File set to Windows Controlled, set the Eagle Dynamics Folder to have Full Permissions (Properties/ Security Tab/ User)

Edited January 5, 2014 by Wolf Rider

[SkateZilla]

Your problem is using on-board sound and of course, your Radeon..

DCS seems to prefer Nvidia by far.

 

Also the 256GB Samsung Evo SSD is actually slower than 250GB version.

256GB is not over-provisioned at the factory which actually makes it slower over time.

 

However, you are having low fps in general, and that's Graphics/Sound/Ram.

You can tweak the RAM and you can purchase an old Sound Blaster Audigy or X-fi.

The sound card resolved the stuttering on my other system, which SSD alone didn't, period.

 

Despite what anybody says, RAM timings is crucial in it's performance and overall system responsiveness and speed.

 

For example:

RAM running at 1066Mhz with 5-5-5-15-2T is slower than the same RAM running at 800Mhz with 4-4-4-12-1T

 

 

Firstly, Again, OnBoard Sound has ZERO to do with FPS, I've tested that repeatedly, I can even leave my Onboard Sound Device On and use my XFi,

 

Right now I Have my XFi, Black Magic Intensity Pro Output, ALC892 and 2 USB Audio Devices in my Volume Control Panel, I can use any one of those by right clicking and setting as default, Still no FPS Difference, using any of them.

 

 

As for Ram Timings.

Again, Results are Negligible in DCS, you'll see a increase in synthetic benchmarks, not in gaming,

When I was overclocking my CPU, I Adjusted RAM Modes and Timings, there is no difference in Gaming.

 

 

As for 256 vs 250 SSDs, if they use the same chips, the performance will be the same as long as they are setup correctly (AHCI, ALIGNED, TRIM, etc).

 

The over provision just gives it a few extra memory blocks to write on to extend life time.

 

No recently purchased SSD should be anywhere near it's MAX Writes if being only used by average home user. to Further that, READ Speed doesnt degrade, WRITE Speed does. And if it does, then it wasnt setup properly (Mainly TRIM and ALIGN).

 

And Finally, not everyone here has the knowledge or ability to go into their bios to do half the stuff you're repeating, and part of the people that do know how to do it prolly dont have hardware capable of doing it.

 

Finally,

This thread is about Setting the DCS Process to Maintain it's Address on Specific cores, if you wish to promote your Ram Timing and SSD solutions, please create a separate thread.

 

not about advertising for SSDs, and hardware upgrades.

Have a Nice day,

 

And to show I'm not picking on you, I can Verify, Praise, Preach, Support, and Back up claims that AMD's Drivers and their Lack of DX9 Optimizations for nearly 2 Years Causes Plenty of FPS issues with DCS.

 

 

 

As for Affinity, seems to be mixed results?, Phenom/Intel Users not getting anything?

[doveman]

@ Doveman...

 

silly I know, but test again using just a single monitor, no head tracker, Page File set to Windows Controlled, set the Eagle Dynamics Folder to have Full Permissions (Properties/ Security Tab/ User)

 

Not silly at all but I am only using a single monitor at the moment, sorry if there's anything in my post that suggest otherwise.

 

I've currently got the pagefile on one of the HDDs to reduce writes to the SSD but I normally have it disabled completely as with 16GB RAM, DCS doesn't need it at all. I only enabled it again the other day as another game (Dawn of War II) refuses to run with no pagefile.

 

As for permissions, I'm running as Admin and that is already set to Full Control.

 

I'll try disabling the head tracker dll though (I'm not currently using it anyway as I need to rebuild my homemade tracker).

 

I have experimented with trying different versions of the ATI 64-bit dx9 driver (atiumd64.dll) in the bin folder and with 13.12 (13.10 installed on the system) I think I saw a couple of extra fps at the start (40 vs 38) but it didn't help with the drops once I was approaching the target.

[msalama]

Phenom/Intel Users not getting anything?

 

My assigning DCS to cores 3 & 4 (HW, hyperthreading disabled) on my i7-2600k doesn't seem to make any difference, but then v1.2.7b clearly runs smoother than v1.2.6 for me anyway so I'm not complaining :)

 

Will report back if anything of note happens. S!

 

EDIT: oh yeah, this was in in v1.2.7b.

Edited January 5, 2014 by msalama

[msalama]

Hmmm... there may be a slight difference in v1.2.6 but am not sure so I'll still put this down as "inconclusive" so far. Investigating further...

[Wolf Rider]

Firstly, Again, OnBoard Sound has ZERO to do with FPS, I've tested that repeatedly, I can even leave my Onboard Sound Device On and use my XFi,

 

Right now I Have my XFi, Black Magic Intensity Pro Output, ALC892 and 2 USB Audio Devices in my Volume Control Panel, I can use any one of those by right clicking and setting as default, Still no FPS Difference, using any of them.

 

 

As for Ram Timings.

Again, Results are Negligible in DCS, you'll see a increase in synthetic benchmarks, not in gaming,

When I was overclocking my CPU, I Adjusted RAM Modes and Timings, there is no difference in Gaming.

 

 

As for 256 vs 250 SSDs, if they use the same chips, the performance will be the same as long as they are setup correctly (AHCI, ALIGNED, TRIM, etc).

 

The over provision just gives it a few extra memory blocks to write on to extend life time.

 

No recently purchased SSD should be anywhere near it's MAX Writes if being only used by average home user. to Further that, READ Speed doesnt degrade, WRITE Speed does. And if it does, then it wasnt setup properly (Mainly TRIM and ALIGN).

 

And Finally, not everyone here has the knowledge or ability to go into their bios to do half the stuff you're repeating, and part of the people that do know how to do it prolly dont have hardware capable of doing it.

 

Finally,

This thread is about Setting the DCS Process to Maintain it's Address on Specific cores, if you wish to promote your Ram Timing and SSD solutions, please create a separate thread.

 

not about advertising for SSDs, and hardware upgrades.

Have a Nice day,

 

And to show I'm not picking on you, I can Verify, Praise, Preach, Support, and Back up claims that AMD's Drivers and their Lack of DX9 Optimizations for nearly 2 Years Causes Plenty of FPS issues with DCS.

 

 

 

As for Affinity, seems to be mixed results?, Phenom/Intel Users not getting anything?

 

Alignment is only necessary for Windows XP, (as are a lot of other tweaks for, which did work then) as Windows 7/ 8 sorts that out as it is a SSD aware operating system and those which are "getting something" with Windows_7 or 8 and Setting CPU Affinity (the subject of the thread), really, are only getting a placebo effect. Having said that, a more responsive feeling desktop may be achieved.

 

:)

[camsr]

eXpert has an argument here (although it is somewhat belligerent).

Sound device drivers do make a difference. I use lots of music software and know this issue first hand. With the right sound hardware and drivers, stutters in lots of applications are reduced. There is a driver solution for cheap sound devices called ASIO4ALL that works in many music programs, but they have to support the ASIO standard (I think...) to reap the benefit of low latency audio. This is a generic driver for many off the shelf sound devices. But no doubt it beats out the OS in audio stream handling, which itself is the problem.

[blackbelter]

This maybe a bit off topic. But isn't all this work fruitless considering edge ? I'll keep it short and sweet w/out my many reasons why.. If need be I can elaborate.

 

My main reason for asking this is people will spend the money for upgraded hardware if requiring. But if it's just to improve this engine, etc. what is the point?

 

My presuming comes from PC games in general, ps3 games and seeing how dx10,11 turns choppy gameplay to arcadey feel smoothness. Example.

 

Why do you think ED is still putting a lot of effort into 1.2.7? :D

 

EDGE is coming, yes, but DCS still need the the current engine to be freely available. It is probably the first taste of DCS for a new player, so it is essential that it works fine.

 

Not saying this thread has anything to do with this. :smartass:

[javelina1]

trying out the affinity settings, (via task manager).

 

I have an i5-661. So it's dual core, with hyperthreading enabled. So I have cores 0, 1, 2, and 3. I presume cores 1 & 3 are the hyperthreads.

 

To set affinity properly, I need to have launcher.exe use only cores 0 & 2?

 

sound correct?

 

TIA,

 

-Jav

[SkateZilla]

trying out the affinity settings, (via task manager).

 

I have an i5-661. So it's dual core, with hyperthreading enabled. So I have cores 0, 1, 2, and 3. I presume cores 1 & 3 are the hyperthreads.

 

To set affinity properly, I need to have launcher.exe use only cores 0 & 2?

 

sound correct?

 

TIA,

 

-Jav

 

it would be DCS.exe

 

You can set it in the LUA file.

[javelina1]

it would be DCS.exe

 

You can set it in the LUA file.

 

gracias dude. :thumbup:

[Brutov]

Which LUA file you mean?

thanks in advance

[javelina1]

great thread. I was able to use the core count & the affinity masking matrix. made things real easy. I've verified that my DCS.exe is using cores 0 & 2.

 

Will give the sim a few goes now, to see how things look. Obviously, not expecting an FPS increase, just hoping it might help with the occasional micro stutter.

 

thanks again Skatezilla, very useful info. :thumbup:

[msalama]

And I guarantee you that in DCS you will gain stutters and overall lower FPS.

 

I'm running onboard audio and I guarantee you that no soundcard I've ever tried has beat the latencies I'm seeing now. And as a consequence my DCS too happens to be very smooth and stutterfree ;)

 

PS / EDIT: And oh yeah, according to c0ff the sound in DCS is always rendered by the CPU anyway: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1947402&postcount=26

Edited January 12, 2014 by msalama

[javelina1]

I am sure that there is plenty of people who encounter stutters and other performance issues with DCS for whom this simple DPC Latency Checker shows everything green.

 

snip...

 

.

 

Yep, I've used that simple DPC checker, and it says I'm all cool... But when I use this one, it'll run for about 3 minutes and say everything's cool, and then It'll go red and I get a report that I'll probably have issues.

 

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

[msalama]

...for whom this simple DPC Latency Checker shows everything green.

 

Could be. But I'm not one of them, because I have no sound-related stutters whatsoever.

 

Plus, you didn't mention the exact Sound Chip your Motherboard has.

 

I don't have a clue as to what chip this motherboard (Z68 Extreme4 Gen3) uses, and I really couldn't care less TBH. No stutters and adequate sound quality for DCS means I'm good, which again means I don't need a separate soundcard. Which was my point all along ;)

[SkateZilla]

Can you stop hi-jacking the thread into the onboard audio debate eXpert?

 

Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 All Use A Software Audio Stack, Regardless of what Sound Card you have.

 

XAudio Runs on a CPU Thread.

 

The only Part of the Audio Chip that is being used is most likely your DAC, unless you're outputting digital in which case you're simply outputting the audio from the XAudio Rendering thread to the output device.

 

The only thing you'll gain by using a Dedicated SPU is Hardware Accelerated Post Effects (EQ, Crystalizer, Surround Emulation Etc)

 

 

Which LUA file you mean?

thanks in advance

 

LUA is attached to the 1st post with description

Edited January 13, 2014 by SkateZilla

[camsr]

Stuttering audio is a symptom of window's audio stream API (WASAPI). It has somewhat to do with drivers as well, but IME anything (audio workstation) using ASIO beats the pants off WASAPI.

[Snaut]

Onboard sound here, no stutters firing cannon in DCS.

Also, I'm getting awesome 1 ms latency using ASIO in Ableton Live :)

[SkateZilla]

Until you do the proper test and verify that the Sound Card has no effect on DCS performance, by taking it out completely and using the on-board sound only, I'm going to decline and insist on me being correct in the assessment that it does matter, still even in Win 7.

 

I took out SB Audigy and SB X-fi out of two of my systems and using only the on-board Realtek sound chip resulted in noticeable stutters in DCS, especially when firing a cannon. Trying several different drivers didnt resolve it.

 

If you just follow the theory alone, you will not arrive at the correct results.

You have to test. Besides, the theory and your assumption is not 100% correct and depends on configuration.

 

Unlike the popular belief, Windows Vista 7/8 can take advantage of the Hardware Accelerated Sound provided you have the hardware and are using the proper API.

 

The basic on-board sound, in most cases, cannot accelerate anything, regardless of the OS used. It's just an audio controller, it has no Hardware DSP, nothing more than a signal router.

 

The only way you'll prove me wrong, and only in the case of your specific system configuration, is by taking out the Sound Card and using the on-board Sound Chip only. Then post the results. I suggest everyone with an add-in card, try taking it out, setting on-board as default, DCS performance will change for the worse.

 

Also, I have not seen a single positive result in this thread from changing the CPU Affinity, only negative effect. Seems a lot more obsolete than doing something with the sound. Windows already does a great job at CPU scheduling on its own, why mess with it?

 

On the other hand, the sound processing can greatly affect a demanding applications performance and with a correct API, it will offload the CPU and use Hardware to Accelerate sound processing and output.

 

Also, check your IRQ table, I bet the on-board sound chip is sharing IRQ with NIC or something else. Now, you'll say that the IRQs are obsolete, again, that's false, it still matters to avoid sharing IRQs between the main components, and disabling the on-board chip in BIOS will free it up.

 

The basic IBM-PC architecture has not changed so drastically that these concepts became invalid all of a sudden. I assure you that Sound Hardware and API plays a role in the overall performance and having the on-board chip does affect DCS.

 

I Said I did that, Took XFi Out, Disabled it, Left it Enabled and Changed default Device, all the results were the same

 

If your Onboard Sound is causing Stuttering issues, it's because of something else,

 

Pretty sure it's a Windows Problem with the Driver.

 

Betcha if it isnt a Driver issue, it's a DirectX Hardware Acceleration Setting Level.

 

Windows Vista, 7,8, All use a Software Audio Stack, on top of that, the XAudio2 Engine in DCS Uses a CPU Thread and does not use SPU Hardware Acceleration.

 

So Because the Thread with the Title "TEST: Setting CPU Affinity" didnt yield all positive results you wanna hijack it into a Dedicated SPU Debate?

 

The whole point of the thread was to "Test"....

 

As for IRQs, I'm well aware of the IRQ Table and Shared IRQs, I Survived the VIA KT1xx Chipset Disasters, where GPUs and SPUs were being put on the Same Interrupt Request, The main Fix Back then was to Manually Re-Assign them or Change Your PC time from "ACPI Comliant" to "Standard PC" in Device Manager, then Reboot, enter BIOS, Disable ACPI, Reboot, and so On.

 

I've been building PC's since like 1990.

Edited January 13, 2014 by SkateZilla

[camsr]

I started off with a Soundblaster AWE 32, which Duke Nukem 3D even had a preset for! Hail to the king, baby! :thumbup:

Edited January 14, 2014 by camsr

[Wolf Rider]

I'm still running my Auzentech X-Fi Prelude (PCI)... best sounding card ever

 

http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php#specifications

 

 

more to the point... TEST: Setting CPU Affinity. as with any good testing regime, testing one component should be done in relation to other components/ settings for a true indication of any pro's/ con's achieved (eg Setting Affinity on an XP System along with the better Page File fix, gave a better result than just the Affinity being set or Page File being relocated to its own dedicated drive.)

Edited January 14, 2014 by Wolf Rider