phd_doc

Reposted from the SimHQ furums: I appreciate all the feedback you have given me, and I had nearly (99%) made up my mind on the HOTAS I wanted, and was just waiting for th funds to become available when I saw this deal. It has performed well so far, so I think I am in good shape, until next year that is >=) (or until it breaks)

VI. Addendum A. Responses On the SimHQ forums, I was asked some more questions for clarifications, and given comments on my post. Here are my responses (to Q/C by SimHQ user -Ice), and some insights into my though process: - Q/C: Which sims do you play or plan to play with this setup? A: I am not looking to play any particular sims with it, per se. However, I will tell you which “games” I own and will plan on playing. X-Wing, Tie Fighter, X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, Evochron Mercenary, DCS World w/ A-10C, Flight, MWO, and X3:TC/AP. That is my current stable of flight/throttle games. At some point soon I would like to add the Lock-On series, and perhaps even F4:AF to my collection. - Q/C: For instance, if you only ever play an F-16 sim, then split-throttles is not an issue, but it is a big one if you play A-10s or F-18s. Do you play modern sims or WWII/WWI sims? With modern sims, more buttons and programmability is needed, with older aircraft, a couple of buttons and a throttle should work fine. A: I play modern and space games/sims. I added the split throttle into the pros and cons because part of me would like to somewhat “future-proof” my system. I know that limits my choices, but the split throttle does not make-or-break the decision. It is more like a bell or whistle. - Q/C: As for rudder pedals, the choice is somewhat limited. I have the Saitek ProFlight rudder pedals and after 2+ years of use, they still work great. Other products are the CH pedals, the Saitek Combat pedals, and the Logitech pedals.... so far I've heard positive things about both Saitek pedals and the CH pedals. I've also heard that for modern fighters, the pedals aren't much of an issue but with older aircraft, you tend to use the rudders more. A: The prices I gave in my original post were for either the “CH Products Pro Pedals Discover Bundle” on Amazon or the Saitek Pro Flight pedals. The Saitek Combat/Cessna pedals look nice, but I have heard good things about the CH/Pro Flight pedals, and don’t know if the increase in price is worth it. If I choose the CH HOTAS, then I will obviously go with the CH pedals. Then, I can use my entire setup in older games and let the CH software emulate a single input device. If I go Saitek, then I will get the Saitek pedals. In the older games, those that will not ID a second game device, the Saitek HOTAS will have twist to roll the aircraft. That is what the stick twist does in games like Tie Fighter. With the CH setup, I would use the pedals to do that. - Q/C: TM Warthog - expensive, I'll give you that. However, as I prefer this to be a one-off purchase, I tend to go for quality and keep the costs to a reasonable level. Like buying a PC case --- do you go for the el-cheapo ones that you need to mod and the ones wherein just thinking about going in the case gives you nightmares? Or do you go for the more expensive one (within reason!) but is "just perfect" for your needs -- good ventilation, adequate space, proper cable management, etc etc.? The one wherein you look inside the case and can't help but wonder how you've ever done such an amazing job with your computer build? Anyway, I digress... with the WH, it is expensive, but it works straight away. With DCS A10C, it even syncs to the proper controls straight away (except the trim functions). So not only will you get a durable HOTAS, you get one that allows you to play straight away with minimal fuss ---- handy for those of us with jobs, families, etc. who basically have limited simming time. A: I went middle-of-the-road with my computer case. I built my system myself, and I needed to make sure I could reach everything. I also had to make sure the case had to work in the tight confines of the space in desk I was allotting it. All things considered, it was the cheapest, best option. I appreciate the utility of the WH, and if A-10C was the only game (sim, sorry) I was going to play, I would weigh the WH heavier in my decisions. - Q/C: CH gear - again, slightly more expensive than the norm, but same sentiments about reliability as the WH. Why get CH over a WH? No idea... maybe some people prefer CH, or prefer the plastic, I dunno. A: I do not feel that the CH route is too pricey. For the cost of all 3 parts, it is still cheaper than the x65. Price for the CH is just right, I think, especially knowing the (supposed) build quality of the CH. Also, the plastic of the CH isn’t what concerns me. It is the action of the throttle that holds the most questions. I have read that it is stiff. I have also read there is no friction setting due to there being no need to counteract gravity, which alludes to the throttle being loose. - Q/C: The X65F is the best in Saitek's range, but again have heard of problems with the force sensing losing calibration after some time. Plus the stick at least needs to be bolted down onto the table so that it doesn't move too much during aggressive maneuvers. A: I have heard those comments too. That is why I posted concerns and questions regarding the x65. I hope someone owns one (recently or currently) and lets us know. - Q/C: G940 - Don't diss this one... despite the problems I've heard it is the best stick when playing DCS Black Shark because of the FF function! A: I didn’t mean to diss in general, just that it won’t work for me. If the stick doesn’t twist, I have no roll control in Tie Fighter. And no throttle. Also, I have no plans on playing Black Shark or any other helicopter sim. B. Additional Information I am not considering a TM Cougar. I do not plan on building a simpit (no room), so any kind of realism is not important. I plan on mounting my new toy (I mean tool!) on top of a floor mounted skid (think http://www.rogerdodger.net/diyflightsims/floor_unit.html) I value everyone’s input on the topic. After all, I want to mine all your knowledge to make the best purchase I can!

Reprinted from the SimHQ forums. I thought I would ask in another location to try to get more opinions. Thank you in advance for your time and feedback. I. Introduction and Thesis II. HOTAS Pros III. HOTAS Cons IV. Conclusion V. Request for the Community VI. Addendum I. Introduction and Thesis Coming up at the end of this year, I have been given the blessing of my better half to enter HOTAS-land. After much contemplating, I still have not decided what I want. However, I have narrowed the field to 5 potentials (maybe even just 3, depending). Following isn't a generic (that's Gen'eric!) list of pros and cons, but instead, is a list that is important to me. I will be considering the purchase of pedals as well, so look for it, as well as a cost breakdown in the conclusion section. (all prices valid as of 09-14-2012. I am aware that the prices may be currently different, and that they fluctuate due to market forces) The HOTAS in question are the standard 5 that everyone is aware of, so let's get right into it! II. HOTAS Pros A. Thrustmaster Warthog Everyone really loves this HOTAS, and for good reason, right? Everything I read about it says that it is just on this side of bulletproof, and that it has all the programmable buttons anyone needs. The build feels great and the throttle tension is adjustable (and split in twain, for just the right reasons!). In short, this thing feels like it will really last. B. Saitek x65 Sex appeal on this = 10 (YMMV). Oh, and has a split throttle, can't forget that! Many knobs and switches adorn the throttle (me likey!), and the stick has its share of love, too. C. Saitek x52 Pro For a long time this HOTAS has really caught my eye. The "sci-fi" look doesn't bother me. In fact, I like the look. It glows too, so kudos there. Does that MFD do anything yet with any community programming? It might! But I don't know if I want to look down at it. Still, looks classy. D. CH Products Fighterstick + Pro Throttle USB Everyone says CH stuff is bulletproof. Definitely a plus. Also, the programming software makes the HOTAS (and pedals) mimic one device, so I would be able to use this in older games (read here, Tie Fighter). Bonus. E. Logitech G940 It is made by Logitech, and I have always used Logitech products. If Jeff Gordon was sponsored by Logitech instead of Dupont, I might root for him. (If I watched NASCAR, but I don't) Split throttle. It comes with pedals too, so I don't have to buy another device. III. HOTAS Cons A. Thrustmaster Warthog Expensive, considering pedals are also required. If purchased today, this HOTAS would cost $484. Pedals add another $87 or $105, depending on the brand. B. Saitek x65 Also expensive, but not as. Today, I would shell out $304, plus pedals. And the force-sensing stick. A little afraid of that. C. Saitek x52 Pro No split throttle. D. CH Products Fighterstick + Pro Throttle USB Lack of info on the friction level of the throttle. I have read that there is no friction setting (not needed because of the slide action) and that the action is stiff. I worried about it being too loose, but I guess I just don’t have enough info. Throttle sex appeal is non-existent. Throttle not split. E. Logitech G940 Don’t need force feedback. Also, the contraption will register as 3 different devices, so no Tie Fighter for me. IV. Conclusion A. Thrustmaster Warthog Not a contender. Prohibitively pricey. ($571 to $589 with pedals) B. Saitek x65 A contender, though only the force-sensing part of this stick is keeping me from getting it. Marginally too pricey as well, but I could keep the cost down by skipping the pedals, this year . ($304 solo, or $391 to $409 with pedals) C. Saitek x52 Pro A contender, and still a favorite (due to cost and bling. I love bling!), through all my research. Pedals not required here, but would be appreciated. ($158 currently on Amazon, so $245 to $263 with pedals) D. CH Products Fighterstick + Pro Throttle USB A contender. Even though I have major questions about this throttle, the overall quality (that I have heard, no firsthand knowledge) of this brand, and the programming software, pushes it toward the top. Very reasonable price, too, for a full set-up. ($273 with pedals) E. Logitech G940 Not a contender. That is how much I love my Tie Fighter. ($290) V. Request for the Community All that having been said, I have questions for y’all: 1. If you have a Saitek x65, have you been able to acclimate to the force-sensing? 2. Also for the x65, are there still stick centering problems? 3. For CH folks, how does the throttle feel? Loose? Stiff? Just right? 4. In general, is there anything glaring that I haven’t considered? Thank you all for taking the time to read and comment.