FuldaGap

Frankly, my dear... I don't give a damn ;) Leaving thread :)

Dictionary: :book: patronize: pa.tron.ize /ˈpeɪtrəˌnaɪz, ˈpæ‑/[pey-truh-nahyz, pa‑] :smartass:2.to behave in an offensively condescending manner toward: a professor who patronizes his students. For a moderator, you sure like to pick a fight ;). ...not said in malice :music_whistling:

I have no doubt, but history has shown that no military machine is invincible. And even if it seems to be invincible just as it enters service, the "enemies" all over the world will constantly try to find new ways to defeat it. I love the F-22 and think it's going to prove an amazing aircraft, but I'm no fanboy (not accusing you either though...). ;) If you read my first post thoroughly, you would see that i believe the F-22 would have a kill ratio of maybe 10:1 to 20:1 depending on the adversary. This is simply based on what i've read and a big amount of guessing, but it should show you that I appreciate the F-22 as an extremely effective combat aircraft. If I was a Sukhoi-fanboy I would probably say something like: The Su-37 Terminator can wipe the floor with the F-22... I didn't ;)

Are you answering me or topol-m? If it is me: -I never said I'm a Russian aviation fan. -I never said the Ibris-E is superior to the AN/APG-77. I said russian IR optics are effective and may pose a threat to any aircraft. Also stealth -"Why do alot of people think stealth means "invisible" when really it means LO": That's what I said. -Why does it "annoy" you that people compare? If it's not me: never mind. ;)

Well, I don't understand your point about F-22s IR signature... Engine exhaust is warm and can be detected. I just noted that the russians are quite advanced in IR detection and that it might be another way to find targets that "stealth=invisible to radar"-people haven't thought about. Yes, most older migs are dead, but in a brewing big conflict, one must assume that the russians would devote an unseemly amount of resources to get most of their winged aircraft in the air (even prop-driven ;) ). That whole radar-thing about a -40dbsm target i openly admit that I don't understand. I'm no expert in radar technology. I just said that I don't know the different detection ranges that the Raptor-radar and the Su-35-radar has. I don't know who would detect a... Cessna 172 or something (a common example-target)... first.. I assume it's the F-22 because it probably got more sophisticated signal processing than the Su-35, but all that is classified so we all have to assume a bit in that area... I assume ;) SDB's are impressive weapons and I guess even an F-22 could take a bunch of them, but you can't honestly believe that a force of F-22s and F-35 could wipe out the entire russian air defence network without ever coming under fire? You said: "The radar is slaved to those targets and the engagement follows". Yes, the F-22 has lots of amazing qualities, I'm sure, but once it flips on its radar, it is immediately detectable. Even if the radar is on for only a few seconds to give the weapon a lock, the enemy will know there's an F-22 in that particular area, and that's always trouble for any aircraft. At least we agree on one thing then :) ;)

Lots of interesting photos. Thanks people. :)

I agree with you topol-m. Too many people have the misconception that stealth means "invisbile". People must understand that it meanst it's just more difficult to detect, and it has to get closer (compared to the F-15 for example) to the radar to be detected. Besides, Russians have always been good with IR-detection and optical systems, so radar isn't the only thing you have to worry about. A F-22 at full burner is quite visible in some spectrums. Besides, quite often when I see pictures F-22s that have intercepted Tu-95s they are carrying external fuel tanks (bye bye stealthiness... hello nice round droptanks). Comparing the F-22 to the Su-47 is quite silly, and most reasons are listed in this thread. One is a tech demonstrator/aerodynamic test while the other is a highly classified air superiority fighter. In some sense they are both sort of relics from the cold war (uh oh.. danger of being flamed here)... but they are. The Su-47-idea with forward sweep has been mentioned in aviation literature for a very long time (at least since the 1980s. And the germans even tried it in WW2) and the concept of a pure dogfighter/air superiority fighter is getting obsolete. A single-role aircraft (yes, I know they've adapted the Raptor to carry JDAM now, but that wasn't the original intention) only really fits into the WW3 scenario where thousands of aircraft would clash in the skies over Germany/central Europe and the Pacific. In such a scenario, it's ok to have "fighters" and "bombers" and "attack aircraft" and "tank busters", but in a "normal" war, most countries can't afford having single-role aircraft anymore. Ofcourse, the US is different because their military budget is larger than most nations national budget, but even they must feel the burden of having to service so many different combat aircraft in even limited operations. (B-1, B-2, B-52, F-15E, F-16C, F-18, F-22, A-10 etc. etc.) That said, I think that in pure air-to-air combat, the F-22 would come out on top against most adversaries most of the time because it's one of the newest planes in any arsenal (ergo: more technologically advanced). However, it's impossible to predict because combat effectiveness depends on more than top speed and the number of bullets in the 20mm and how well a given aircraft can perform impressive airshow-maneuvers (hint: Russian aircraft). In a full-scale war (Conventional "Red Storm Rising"-style WW3), the 380(?) F-22s wouldn't make up for the maybe thousands of older Migs and Sukhois they would face. Sure, the kill ratio might be 10:1 or even 20:1, but i believe lots of F-22s would fall out of the sky in a prolonged conflict. At least to ground fire (as mentioned by topol-m) and the odd encounter with 4.5gen-5gen russians. I just wonder one thing about your post topol-m: How do you know the Su-35 has a more powerful radar than the F-22? I've never seen reliable specs for any of them... Oh well, this has been a long rant, but I have so many opinions :) All things said: The F-22 looks so awesome... It has to be good ;)

Hey, Alphainfinity, it's interesting to read your post because I just ordered a very similar rig: Motherboard: Asus P6T Deluxe CPU: Core I7-920 RAM: 6gb DDR3 XMS3 1333Mhz Graphics card: XFX Geforce 9800GTX+ "XXX" HDD: 1TB PSU: Corsair 850W Cabinet: Antec 1200 Monitor: BenQ 24inch 1920x1080 HD, 2ms In other words, small differences. I think it's going to be great :) And reading your reports on the performance in 1920x1080, I'm really looking forward to it. I figured it was time to say goodbye to my five year old rig (P4 3Ghz, 22inch CRT, Geforce 7800GS (AGP!!), 2GB DDR). I'm thinking about a burial at sea ;)