More detailed damage model for MBT

Hi :)

Currently modding the efficiency of the Rockets in DCS to make them more suitable for tank destruction, I conducted several tests of resistance on the tanks which DCS features.

Here are my conclusions, after several hours of testing, and working on the Warheads.lua

In any situation, an anti-tank rocket like the S-8KOM, or the Hydra-70 anti-tank will penetrate a MBT if it hits :

- Rear verticale engine plate.

- Side plate beneath the turret.

In the Warheads.lua, there is a line setting the coefficient of the damages in case of penetrating a vehicle. Currently, it is incredibly low, leading to a 4 rockets penetration to destroy a tank.

Another huge issue, because it is an issue, is that rockets will be far less efficient if they hit the roof of the turret or of the engine, than the engine verticale plate itself (as I said, 4 rockets needed).

To give you a simple illustration :

Hovering in Ka-50 20 m above a T-55-72-80 tank, or any other heavy tank, I will need between 50 and 100 API 30mm rounds in the engine top ventilation grids to destroy the tank. Obviously, it is completely inaccurate, as long as 1 to 10 shells would be far enough to set the engine on fire.

After several discussions, on french, and ED forums, it appeared that a simple rocket which would penetrate the tank, (From T-55 to Abrams), would lead to :

- Possible crew death.

- Possible crew heavy injuries.

- Fire depending of the position of the penetration (fuel tank, engine etc...)

- In any case, the blast caused would disable the crew for several minutes/hours depending of the violence and proximity of the impact point.

In any situation, the tank would be disabled, and neutralized, even if not exploding, or burning.

In DCS, the only way to render this result is to completely destroy the tank.

So there is one way, quite easy IMO, to render it relatively well. 2 steps are needed, one can be modded (and is already), not the second one.

- First : increasing the penetration damage coefficient, just like I made in the mode, so that in case of penetration of 1 rocket, the tank would be destroyed. There is one number for each warhead to change...

- Secondly : Rework the armor model, and tweak a lot the roof resistance.

Be aware that all test were conducted at low distance, insuring 100% hits on the targeted parts of the tank.

Another way to increase realism would be to provide a repair delay to the MBT units. Just like the aircrafts, the tank wouldn't be usable during this delay, and it would clearly increase the CA gameplay pleasure. This delay would depend of the damage level of the tank. For example : 25% damage = 3 minutes, 50% = 12 minutes, 75% = 45 minutes.

Thank you for reading this and considering seriously these modifications, they are essential in order to render realistic engagements.

Nicolas

Maybe someone is possible to make a script (like the suppressing fire) for the missions, which deactivate the ai for 15min (or permanently ) if the HP of the Unit is less then 50%?! So it will be an immobilized unit (and an easy target)

Sure it is possible to do, I can do it myself. But I won't, it is not my job and I am not paid for it ;)

It is not up to the community to improve the gameplay to make it more realistic, specially on a simulator.

And honestly, 90% of the Mission editors hide under their table when they hear the word "script", so I think about them, not about myself or the rare people who often use them :)

This gameplay point is vital, and that's not up to community to deal with it. It is not so hard to modify as long as I could do it, and I am a student in Right university, not a coder... ;) So a direct implementation in DCS by the ED team would allow people to use efficiently their rockets/canon on soft hull parts of the MBT on a realistic way.

Honestly, I never managed to destroy an Abrams tank with my S-8KOM, even with the first version of my mod which only needs 2 penetrations, as long as I have to shoot from 2 km before getting sniped by the cal.50 on the turret --''''

But the AI sniping amazing skill will be for another day.

Nicolas

New damage models for CA are on the roadmap, but nobody knows when it comes. Until then we only can increase the weapons power (as you did) and script an disable behavior.

Maybe someone falls over a solution?! But you need to edit the entire vehicle Park

The Suppression fire script, I tried to modify it, but I don't have all the informations.

I need the MBT category name to provide a modified version. I only need this, but I don't know how or where to find it.

I managed to get it work for Btr-80 for example. But that's all. And anyway before anything, that's not the only issue.

In kamov, in A-10, Mig or in Su-25, you are more susceptible to hit the roof of the tank than its side. But the issue is that the rocket just doesn't penetrate. So changing the penetratio ndamage coeff won't change anything. I have to increase the size of the explosive mass. And I don't want to do it, because there wouldn't be any difference between a S-13 and an S-8KOM. That's stupid. Anyway, I cannot change too the damage penetration coeff of the canon shells. And IMO, they are far more used in missions than rockets themselves.

On another hand, AI is crazy, even if you manage to shock a T-55 in a column after having shot 40 S-8 and caused 40 explosions, they will snipe you from behind the smoke just like if you were standing right in front of them. That's all the AI behaviour which has to be changed. An efficient script shouldn't only focus on the hit tank, but on the whole group, and it may ask a lot of work.

The suppression fire script will make an unit come to "do not shoot" behaviour. But If you try to do it on a whole group, if it does work, so the entire group will be shocked, even the tank which is 400 m away from the hit tank. And I really don't know if it's possible, in one group, to set different behaviors to each unit. I don't think. The ideal script would give a 15 seconds reaction time to all non hit targets, and 10 minutes of incapacity for hit targets.

This is completely over my .lua and DCS comprehension.

Nicolas

Please allow us to kill the disgusting machine gunner!!!