General DCS flight model question

[Oldguy]

I am wondering what the effect of different flight models, for different aircraft, has on DCS World play.

 

1) For instance, if the Su-27 now has the "professional level flight model" does that have an effect on how the AI flies the plane, or only an effect on how I experience the flight of the plane when I use it? How does it compare to the "F-15C AFM"?

 

2) If I wanted, as another example, to fly the MiG-21 module, what kind of AI flight performance can I expect from an AI-driven F4?

 

3) I've seen, variously, AFM, SFM and EFM mentioned, but I really don't know when I will be affected by them as I set up different scenarios to play.

 

My goal is to keep the playing field fairly even, me against 'them', but I am beginning to wonder if choosing an aircraft that has a more realistic flight model, like the Su-27 or F-15C, puts me at a handicap with the AI opponents.

 

For instance, I've seen some pretty spectacular AI F4 flying against the player MiG-21 in knife-fight range, which was surprising.

 

If I want to fly a balanced mission, from player/AI pilot-capability point-of-view, would I get better results if I chose a MiG-29 (since it flies the older FC3 fight model {I think}) against an AI-driven Su-27?

 

By that, I mean, would I get closer to real-world interactions between such opponents?

 

I do not mean would they perform equally, (I expect differing capabilities from the Su-27 versus the MiG-29) only that the relative characteristics of each would be as expected in a real-world confrontation.

 

Just trying to figure out this rapidly-changing landscape.

 

:helpsmilie:

 

p.s. I am not interested in the characteristics of various PvP match ups, thanks.

[AceRevo]

F-15 also got PFM.

[Flagrum]

The AI always uses the SFM, which is differently for every aircraft. I.e. the AI in a MiG-21 will show a different flight performance than an AI in a MiG-29. But the AI generally can take advantage of the aircraft's capabilities much better than a human, especially at the edge of the respective flight envelopes. So for example the AI in a MiG-21 can do things with it's SFM that a human player in the same MiG-21 (but EFM/PFM) probably would have difficulties to replicate in a consistent manner - although both would be limited by (basically) the same flight envelope restrictions. But then, the human can utilize the additional posibilities that the EFM/PFM offers.

[Oldguy]

Thank you, that clears up part of the question for me:

all AI vehicles use the FC3 AI model.

 

Can you tell me a little bit more about the differences between AFM, PFM, SFM and EFM?

 

In other words, what should I be looking for in an Su-27 with the PFM and the F15C with the AFM, or the MiG-21 with the EFM?

 

Are they pretty much the same flight model, with differences for the aircraft type, or are they real performance differences, regardless of which aircraft is associated with the specific flight model?

 

Can I chose which flight model I'd like to use with any given aircraft? For instance, can I fly the Su-27 with the SFM rather than the newer PFM?

[Exorcet]

1) For instance, if the Su-27 now has the "professional level flight model" does that have an effect on how the AI flies the plane, or only an effect on how I experience the flight of the plane when I use it? How does it compare to the "F-15C AFM"?

The AI always uses SFM. This is done, I expect, to reduce CPU and coding load. SFM can still be accurate, it just lacks the fine detail of AFM or better.

 

The F-15 and Su-27 both have good PFM's. ED makes sure that there is a minimum level of quality for their models and official 3rd party modules. Each FM is different, but there isn't a huge rift in fidelity to worry about.

 

2) If I wanted, as another example, to fly the MiG-21 module, what kind of AI flight performance can I expect from an AI-driven F4?

The AI using SFM, has some advantages over the player. At the moment the AI seems to be coded to make use of these advantages. They do not have to worry about edge of envelope flight because their planes are perfectly stable there. Damage does not change their performance, except for very specific damage such as losing one engine in a multi engine plane. The AI has some disadvantages, but they aren't really FM related.

 

 

3) I've seen, variously, AFM, SFM and EFM mentioned, but I really don't know when I will be affected by them as I set up different scenarios to play.

You don't really have to think about them when it comes to mission making. The difference between SFM and AFM (or better) matters more when you look at the fine detail. Zoom out and it's not really very important.

 

My goal is to keep the playing field fairly even, me against 'them', but I am beginning to wonder if choosing an aircraft that has a more realistic flight model, like the Su-27 or F-15C, puts me at a handicap with the AI opponents.

The AI will have its advantages no matter what you pick. Some patches ago, it was possible to mod the game so that you could fly AI flight models. The AI model is less detailed than player SFM from what I experienced.

 

As for the player's model, AFM is not necessarily at a disadvantage. AFM will still let you point the nose in extreme conditions, for example. In SFM, you'd be locked into a scripted movement that could leave you unable to take out a target.

 

For instance, I've seen some pretty spectacular AI F4 flying against the player MiG-21 in knife-fight range, which was surprising.

There are a lot of variable to consider there, like fuel load, which could drastically alter the odds of one side against another.

 

If I want to fly a balanced mission, from player/AI pilot-capability point-of-view, would I get better results if I chose a MiG-29 (since it flies the older FC3 fight model {I think}) against an AI-driven Su-27?

It doesn't matter.

 

 

The AI always uses the SFM, which is differently for every aircraft. I.e. the AI in a MiG-21 will show a different flight performance than an AI in a MiG-29. But the AI generally can take advantage of the aircraft's capabilities much better than a human, especially at the edge of the respective flight envelopes. So for example the AI in a MiG-21 can do things with it's SFM that a human player in the same MiG-21 (but EFM/PFM) probably would have difficulties to replicate in a consistent manner - although both would be limited by (basically) the same flight envelope restrictions. But then, the human can utilize the additional posibilities that the EFM/PFM offers.

 

From what I see, the AI isn't better than players, it simply doesn't have to deal with the more difficult aspects of AFM. It's very evident in the WWII planes as they never suffer from overheating or engine torque issues.

[Flagrum]

Additionally / for completeness: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801

[Flagrum]

From what I see, the AI isn't better than players, it simply doesn't have to deal with the more difficult aspects of AFM. It's very evident in the WWII planes as they never suffer from overheating or engine torque issues.

That is basically what I meant - but you sum it up much better. :o)

[Oldguy]

Additionally / for completeness: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801

 

Thank you.

 

Now I just have to figure out which one is applied to which aircraft, and I should be set.

 

I am very interested in the difference between what players can use, when they occupy the cockpit, and what the AI uses; it gives me a better idea about how to create combinations that are fun without being boring or overwhelming.

 

Much appreciated, all!

[Flagrum]

Thank you.

 

Now I just have to figure out which one is applied to which aircraft, and I should be set.

 

I am very interested in the difference between what players can use, when they occupy the cockpit, and what the AI uses; it gives me a better idea about how to create combinations that are fun without being boring or overwhelming.

 

Much appreciated, all!

As Exorcet already said, don't worry too much about it - it doesn't matter from the viewpoint of a mission maker or even (human) pilot. All AI use SFM, all humans use AFM/PFM(/EFM) (except the few FC3 aircraft which are not upgraded yet).

 

Focus more on the capabilities of the aircraft as such, it's role, it's intendent mission, not some technical implementation detail that you can't influence anyway.