Lofting the missle ??

[simo1000rr]

Does Lofting the missile before launch is implemented in the game , In another word would it increase its effectiveness if i loft the missile like in RL or its not working in the game?

 

Thank you

[mvsgas]

They don't "loft" missiles in RL, not anymore AFAIK. They used to"loft" missiles on older system but with new missiles it would be counterproductive. Missiles like a AGM-45, "lofting" was used. On an AGM-65, not practical nor effective.

Edited March 7, 2016 by mvsgas

[simo1000rr]

well my question was specific for the FC3 aircraft mainly the F15 . So its basically can we loft the AMRAAM 120 or the AIM 7 in the game to increase effectiveness or its not working in the game ??

[mvsgas]

"Lofting" should not increase effectiveness of neither the AIM-7 nor 120 in RL nor FC3.

[GGTharos]

Loft is automatic in the RL 120. AIM-7 at least initially had to be driven to a lofting position, so I don't know about it not increasing effectiveness ... it was a thing then, and I haven't heard or seen it 'not being a thing' now. Do you have some open information about that?

[RvEYoda]

"Lofting" should not increase effectiveness of neither the AIM-7 nor 120 in RL nor FC3.

 

What do you base this on .. :).

[GGTharos]

Perhaps it's a misunderstanding.

 

Lofting might have minimal impact on effectiveness, but it has a known effect on missile flight distance, and thus range.

[simo1000rr]

Perhaps it's a misunderstanding.

 

Lofting might have minimal impact on effectiveness, but it has a known effect on missile flight distance, and thus range.

 

Thats what i meant by asking about lofting if it does increase the missle range . I didnt mean by effectivness the missle hit on target or impact

[mvsgas]

What do you base this on .. :).

 

All F-16 manuals I have read never say anything about lofting missile. Also, when I ask F-16 pilots in my 15 years service, not one of them ever heard of doing that.

[GGTharos]

F-15 manuals have a few details about lofting for both the 7 and the 120.

 

There were also videos on youtube showing loft from F-16, F-18 HUD.

 

All F-16 manuals I have read never say anything about lofting missile. Also, when I ask F-16 pilots in my 15 years service, not one of them ever heard of doing that.

[mvsgas]

F-15 manuals have a few details about lofting for both the 7 and the 120.

 

There were also videos on youtube showing loft from F-16, F-18 HUD.

 

That's cool, but does not change my post. No mention of lofting AIM in the -34 and every pilot I ask had no idea what I was talking about. Form Luke AFB to Aviano, even when I was in Holloman and had the chance to talk to F-15, A-10 and one RAF Flight commander ( I think that was his rank)

 

Is it used? Does it work? Does it increase range, etc.? I never found anything that mention any of this things

 

Could it be called something differently in the manuals perhaps?

Edited March 7, 2016 by mvsgas

[Chrinik]

Lofting works with the KH-58 U, launching from a high altitude and pointing 20 degrees nose up, the missle will fly to an altitude anywhere between 20 and 30km and then simply falls towards it´s target.

Enabeling you to hit targets 300km away no problem.

[mvsgas]

Lofting works with the KH-58 U, launching from a high altitude and pointing 20 degrees nose up, the missle will fly to an altitude anywhere between 20 and 30km and then simply falls towards it´s target.

Enabeling you to hit targets 300km away no problem.

I initially though of AGM missiles but then the OP said this:

well my question was specific for the FC3 aircraft mainly the F15 . So its basically can we loft the AMRAAM 120 or the AIM 7 in the game to increase effectiveness or its not working in the game ??

[simo1000rr]

All F-16 manuals I have read never say anything about lofting missile. Also, when I ask F-16 pilots in my 15 years service, not one of them ever heard of doing that.

 

In the F16 manual for the MLU it indicates adding the lofting angle indicator to the HUD while operating the AIM 120 . if lofting f no use to the AIM 120 why would the give the pilot indication to the lofting angle.

[mvsgas]

Videos like this one

and sim communities are the only places I have found mention of "lofting" missiles. Many bomb lofting mention, but no AIM so far.

 

While on the subject of missiles. On videos found online about Air Combat, whether F-14 engagement to the TV series"Dogfights", etc. most RL pilots seem to prefer to go lower than enemy aircraft ( I assume to hide in the ground clutter) while most people in the sim communities want to go up, to give there missiles better range. I wonder why is that?

[mvsgas]

In the F16 manual for the MLU it indicates adding the lofting angle indicator to the HUD while operating the AIM 120 . if lofting f no use to the AIM 120 why would the give the pilot indication to the lofting angle.

 

Which manual? I have no access to T.O. but I would like to know the T.O.number

 

I will start looking in F-16.net, I'm sure someone has talk about it there.

Edited March 7, 2016 by mvsgas

[simo1000rr]

Which manual? I have no access to T.O. but I would like to know the T.O.number

 

I will start looking in F-16.net, I'm sure someone has talk about it there.

 

I was reading in the F16 – MLU manual produced by Lockheed martin company part 2 . its a pilot guide for understanding the system of the aircraft .im no pilot im a structural engineer so maybe i misunderstood it but its mentioned in page 54 about adding the lofting Cue to the HUD while operating the AIM 120 .

 

See attached

F16 MLU.pdf

[simo1000rr]

here is a full copy of PART 1 and part 2 attached .

F-16-MLU-Manual-Part-1.pdf

F-16-MLU-Manual-Part-2.pdf

[mvsgas]

I was reading in the F16 – MLU manual produced by Lockheed martin company part 2 . its a pilot guide for understanding the system of the aircraft .im no pilot im a structural engineer so maybe i misunderstood it but its mentioned in page 54 about adding the lofting Cue to the HUD while operating the AIM 120 .

 

See attached

So no manual Number? 1F-16... nothing like that?

[simo1000rr]

So no manual Number? 1F-16... nothing like that?

 

i dont fully understand you , are those not manual what i posted . they seem to be produced by LOCKHEED MARTIN . like i said im not fully aware of the F-16 documents. Have you looked at the attachment .

[mvsgas]

here is a full copy of PART 1 and part 2 attached .

 

This mentions Tape M1 from 1998...AFAIK they are up to M7, so this is a bit dated and I have no idea how does it compare to the new Operational program.

[simo1000rr]

This mentions Tape M1 from 1998...AFAIK they are up to M7, so this is a bit dated and I have no idea how does it compare to the new Operational program.

 

Are you saying that this is just written there but it was never used in the F16 or The AMRAAM in operation . Can you clarify .

[mvsgas]

Are you saying that this is just written there but it was never used in the F16 or The AMRAAM in operation . Can you clarify .

 

What I'm saying is:

They don't "loft" missiles in RL, not anymore AFAIK. They used to"loft" missiles on older system but with new missiles it would be counterproductive. Missiles like a AGM-45, "lofting" was used. On an AGM-65, not practical nor effective.

 

"Lofting" should not increase effectiveness of neither the AIM-7 nor 120 in RL nor FC3.

 

All F-16 manuals I have read never say anything about lofting missile. Also, when I ask F-16 pilots in my 15 years service, not one of them ever heard of doing that.

 

That's cool, but does not change my post. No mention of lofting AIM in the -34 and every pilot I ask had no idea what I was talking about. Form Luke AFB to Aviano, even when I was in Holloman and had the chance to talk to F-15, A-10 and one RAF Flight commander ( I think that was his rank)

 

Is it used? Does it work? Does it increase range, etc.? I never found anything that mention any of this things

 

Could it be called something differently in the manuals perhaps?

 

Videos like this one

and sim communities are the only places I have found mention of "lofting" missiles. Many bomb lofting mention, but no AIM so far.

 

While on the subject of missiles. On videos found online about Air Combat, whether F-14 engagement to the TV series"Dogfights", etc. most RL pilots seem to prefer to go lower than enemy aircraft ( I assume to hide in the ground clutter) while most people in the sim communities want to go up, to give there missiles better range. I wonder why is that?

 

Which manual? I have no access to T.O. but I would like to know the T.O.number

 

I will start looking in F-16.net, I'm sure someone has talk about it there.

[simo1000rr]

Im not talking about AGM -65 , im talking about the AMRAAM 120 , plus if lofting was used before on the AMRAAM why its not used anymore since the AMRAAM is still the same as far as i know maybe upgraded . Also how come no pilots of whom you asked had never heard of it or knew what you were talking about if it used to be a thing before.

[mvsgas]

Im not talking about AGM -65 , im talking about the AMRAAM 120...

 

Got it :thumbup:

... plus if lofting was used before on the AMRAAM why its not used anymore since the AMRAAM is still the same as far as i know maybe upgraded .

AFAIK, the missile is up to D version 4 and many (not all) F-16 have updated their operation programs, so; both have gone through many updates. The missile could be updated so it automatically has a lofting trajectory. But I have not found anything that mention this.

 

Also how come no pilots of whom you asked had never heard of it or knew what you were talking about if it used to be a thing before.

I do not know, maybe I did not speak clearly enough, maybe they have a different name or term for this, maybe it was never a "thing before". Regardless the case I could not tell for sure.