How do you see missiles without icons?

[GGTharos]

Is there a chart (cheat sheet) available for timing of missiles? That would be useful. If not, maybe I'll try to make one up.

 

No, there isn't, and it wouldn't help you anyway - any timing is approximate and useful only in telling you when to start doing some stuff...there's zero precision.

 

You can basically count on about 1sec travel/km, though that really does change with altitude and distance. But the idea is, you know when to start violent maneuvers so you don't start too early.

 

Vertical snake? Is that doing a weave going vertical? Going down I'm assuming.

 

No, it's a weave IN the vertical. As in, you're not actually climbing or diving ... you simply go up, down, up, down - smooth 4g reversals while keeping the bandit on the gimbals - this allows you to look for the missile contrails -and- because of how LOMAC's guidance is modelled, causes the missile to turn a whole lot and waste its energy.

 

 

Also, I'll try that with Aim 54 and see how that goes. I also have 19" monitor. But sounds like these things are small to see anyway.

 

They're too small in RL too. Forget the 54...just create a single mission with a Su-27 that carries a single R-27ER ... try fighting it at different altitudes/ranges until you get the hang of it. You should record tracks/ACMI to study what happened. Don't use ECM.

 

So bandit is 10-15 nm. I fire an amraam and get a missile warning. I'm sure maneuvers are different every time, but what typically do you do? I've been watching all those training videos and say to F-pole and pull up at the last second. That works against amraams or with icons. Doesn't work on SARH without icons. Sounds like you don't just F-pole, that you are doing maneuvering the whole time?

 

It works against SARH too ... it's just that you have to know when to do the last maneuver, which makes it more difficult, but you -can- dodge them blind. And no, the maneuvers aren't really different.

 

If I don't care about being offensive, I'll split-S and run away. If I do care about it, I'll put the bandit on the gimbals (F/A-pole) and do what I described above, while dispensing countermeasures when I think the missile is close enough to be affected.

At the last moment, or what I think is the last moment, I'll do an orthogonal barrel roll whether I see the missile or not. But before that, no really violent maneuvers, because SPEED IS LIFE! Try to keep about 475 KTS. DOn't drop below 350.

 

Short range, I'm just maneuvering any which way I can, usually lots of elevator back pressure and split S type maneuvers. Trouble here is knowing when a launch happens. Sometimes I get missile launch warnings from wingmen.

 

Okay, so you are reacting when your wingmen warn you, which is good. But you're getting surprised AND you aren't finding your enemy, which is bad.

 

As for your maneuvers, 'every which way' is better than nothing but not efficient. As much as possible, try to make them out of the missile's plane. That means perpendicular to the missile - that is most effective.

 

Thanks for the help. I'm getting better, slowly.

 

That's the way it is :)

[tmdgm]

Thanks GG, that really helps. So do vertical snakes as you put it, look for contrails, need to figure out a rough time to impact for certain distances and then the final maneuver. That seems to still be the key, estimating when that final maneuver is or should be. I get the launch notice, do the vertical up and downs abeam of the missile, then the final barrel roll. But it's still trying to figure out when that is. You summed it up on "what I think is the last moment". That's where I'm struggling. Don't drop below 350 before the final maneuver is a good piece of advice.

 

On the responding to wingman as too late, that was a radar understanding issue. I understand now and shouldn't happen again.