Flying the Hind before Xmas

[Fri13]

From what i read it said the MI-24 suffers from vibration while hovering because of the big wings interfering with the downwash of the rotor, later versions with the smaler wings (MI-35M) doesn't have that problem anymore.

 

The main rotor was tilted few degrees to give a more stability in hover and cannon firing. The vibrations are commonly when you are in transitional phase, just like with Mi-8 and UH-1H.

 

 

 

 

And often forgotten, Mi-24 has a automatic hover mode. Something fairly unique compared to other that era helicopters. And it would be silly to have a such automatic feature if the helicopter couldn't be able to hover, and any ways build a helicopter that can't hover....

 

 

The VRS is a real problem when you are at thin air and at high temperature. There was example one accident where a Mi-24 dropped in the mountains while it was mimicking a another country helicopter flights as it was tradition, by flying too slow. It entered to VRS and crashed on the mountain. And then in that country it was disallowed pilots to fly below 100 km/h speed on that situation so the VRS couldn't happen, what wasn't case for a another kind helicopter.

[Fri13]

You also didnt mention the source or time at all so I have to ask, what the heck does a T72 turret have to do with this?

 

You missed the point. The Mi-24 has lots of misinformation going around, just like T-72 has. And many who has not much information about those, will easily believe those. Just like that "T-72 is bad because it is required to be aimed by using hand cranks" and "Mi-24 can't hover because it has so big wings".

 

Example, anyone who has seen a T-72 gunner position, would have known such a rumors to be false.

 

Anyone would know the gunner controls are the brown ones.

 

And does it look similar to Mi-24?

 

 

These myths get easily started, a someone learns that T-72 has a backup cranks to rotate turret and aim the cannon if power is lost, slow but still possible.

And then is unfamiliar for things and ask "how did you aim that thing" and someone say "using hand cranks".

 

- "Why you didn't hover?"

- "we can't as we have big wings".

 

 

Like how someone can even write a book and claim that Mi-24 can't hover?

That is like saying "Our attack helicopters are superior, because their helicopter can't even hover!" and then give as reason for that "They have so large wings that it blocks the downwash".

And anyone who looks Mi-24 see it does have a large wings, so it must be true.

 

[bmbpdk]

 

Try this book by Yefim Gordon & Dmitriy Komissarov, Mil MI-24 Hind attack Helicopter (ISBN 1-84037-238-9)

Take the cold war guess work out of the equation.

 

For sure the Hind will have some traits of the MI-8, perhaps very fast VRS when trying to get into a hover far too quickly.

But the Hind will Hover... it is almost crazy to suggest a helicopter will not.

 

I agree that any helicopter can hover and suggesting that it cant is borderlining madness and only proof the ignorance on the subject and lack of common sense of the person suggesting that.

And thank you for the book reference, i own several books by Mr. Gordon and Mr. Komissarov, they are my most trusted sources on Soviet/Russian aviation.

I guess the one you suggested is next in line :-)

 

[Mars Exulte]

It would depend on where he flew it, too. Helicopters are extremely sensitive to changes in air density, which are caused by heat and altitude. In Afghan, in particular, both were working against the Hinds, which often needed a runway to take off when loaded. Mi-24 is a very heavy helo, and it takes much less to deprive it of its hover capability than with most US helicopters. So it's quite possible that his flight was in conditions not quite suited for it, especially if he was flying the D model, which lacked the high altitude adaptations of the Mi-24V.

 

This is the key point here. Flight conditions and loadout are the key point here. The Hind is obviously more than capable of a hover, even with the wings (footage readily available on Youtube) but if you're MTOW and/or high in the Afghan mountains, the situation is a bit different.

[Dragon1-1]

The wings do make hovering tricky, and the weight complicates it further. I think it's a safe bet it'll be even harder to hover and land properly than Mi-8, which is already a challenging bird to fly. In fact, given that, the US pilot could have said "it couldn't hover", when in truth, he couldn't get it to hover. Cyclic/collective actuator problems can do that, especially if transplanted from a much smaller Western helo. :)

[Avimimus]

The wings do make hovering tricky, and the weight complicates it further. I think it's a safe bet it'll be even harder to hover and land properly than Mi-8, which is already a challenging bird to fly. In fact, given that, the US pilot could have said "it couldn't hover", when in truth, he couldn't get it to hover. Cyclic/collective actuator problems can do that, especially if transplanted from a much smaller Western helo. :)

 

Sure... in overload all helicopters can take off more easily with a rolling start (standard for the Mi-8 too)... but it isn't like the Mi-24 can't hover.

 

Another way of looking at it... hover performance will feel a bit anaemic compared to the lift produced with the help of the wings when flying at speed which should feel more 'floaty'... throw in the anhedral of the wings making for smooth sweeping turns... it'll be like flying two different aircraft in one package...

[Dragon1-1]

It's not that it can't hover. It's that it's just difficult enough to get it to hover (if you don't know about the autopilot) to convince a pilot who never flew it nor the Mi-8 that it can't. The problem was the pilot, not the helicopter. :)

[МаксиM]

The Mi-24 can be a hover, BUT according to the flight technical manual, it is forbidden to bring the engine to takeoff mode (this is required for a hover) for more than 5-6 minutes, if the engine is loaded for a long time, their flight resource is significantly reduced, the mi24 was not created for hovering, and despite the fact that there is an atopilot that holds the helicopter quite well, getting from an ATGM will be more difficult than in normal flight

[S.E.Bulba]

https://vk.com/video278784768_171155311

https://vk.com/videos278784768?z=vid...4768_171155311.

[sublime]

 

You missed the point. The Mi-24 has lots of misinformation going around, just like T-72 has. And many who has not much information about those, will easily believe those. Just like that "T-72 is bad because it is required to be aimed by using hand cranks" and "Mi-24 can't hover because it has so big wings".

 

Example, anyone who has seen a T-72 gunner position, would have known such a rumors to be false.

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Anyone would know the gunner controls are the brown ones.

 

And does it look similar to Mi-24?

 

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These myths get easily started, a someone learns that T-72 has a backup cranks to rotate turret and aim the cannon if power is lost, slow but still possible.

And then is unfamiliar for things and ask "how did you aim that thing" and someone say "using hand cranks".

 

- "Why you didn't hover?"

- "we can't as we have big wings".

 

 

Like how someone can even write a book and claim that Mi-24 can't hover?

That is like saying "Our attack helicopters are superior, because their helicopter can't even hover!" and then give as reason for that "They have so large wings that it blocks the downwash".

And anyone who looks Mi-24 see it does have a large wings, so it must be true.

 

ok again, I DIDNT SAY IT COULDNT HOVER . AGAIN I DIDNT SAY IT COULDNT HOVER. I LINKED A REPORT AND ASKED WHY THE GUY SAID IT COULDNT HOVER. EVERYONE PLEASE, STOP SAYING I AM SAYING THAT, I READ THE REPORT AND ASKED A QUESTION, THATS FAR FROM SAYING ' NOPE COULDNT HOVER!'

second of all, fine I see your point but its really a bit of a stretch. youre basically assuming im an arrogant westerner who thinks all soviet equipment is trash (so odd I have more russian modules than western, my fav ww2 front is east, I prefer east in Il2, and Im ALL OVER getting the Hind)

now if I was making deragatory remarks about soviet equipment.. I dont think my behavior would be thus. I still think its a rather extreme stretch to compare the myths about T72s, which are fairly understandle considering their horrific track record against the west ( i blame arab training and culture frankly. see the article 'why arabs lose wars') but comparing that to a single report where the guy says its nigh impossible to hover? come on man, dont you think perhaps you may have kinda.. went a little further than was necessary?

i could see if i was known to diss russia and russian equipment. I could see if this was one of countless troll like claims. I could see if... welll I cant see. I took a link someone else gave me, asked a question about it, and suddenly I became 'the advocate for it'? wtf?!

Do you seriously think I dont want a helo that can hover man??? I already swore Id buy the hind unless they axed AI multicrew. MP multicrew Ill bitch for years but buy. I will NOT buy if they make one man do 2 mens job.

you are right about rumors and myths. Like russians claiming their APS can defeat a kinetic energy APFSDS round... LOL

[diveplane]

fantastic helicopter , looking forward to this one...

[Rogue Trooper]

Me too.

 

[Rogue Trooper]

Do not worry Sublime, 

I think there is a lot of flack coming your way simply because what you posted is correct from a western point of view of attack choppers being superbly agile low level hunter killers........ which the Hind is not.

But it is a capable machine and If Ed include door gunners with this machine then we will all learn how good it is and how much better it is in some areas but poorer in other areas.

 

It is a great attack chopper.... but it is not the best..... it is not a true thoroughbred sniper. 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Rogue Trooper

[JG-1_Vogel]

8 hours ago, Rogue Trooper said:

It is a great attack chopper.... but it is not the best..... it is not a true thoroughbred sniper. 

 

 

This is a point I feel isn't pushed enough. It was envisioned for a very different role, to say a Ka-50. The latter is a dedicated attack helicopter which specialises in taking out enemy armour and other assets from range (typically speaking). The Hind was designed to insert ground forces and provide overhead support at the same time. It's a somewhat unique blend of a transport and attack helicopter, the likes of which we haven't really seen imo since.

 

I've been a huge fan of the Mi-24 design since I was a young lad, it's such an intimidating machine and I can't wait to get my mits on it!

[Fri13]

6 hours ago, JG-1_Vogel said:

The Hind was designed to insert ground forces and provide overhead support at the same time. It's a somewhat unique blend of a transport and attack helicopter, the likes of which we haven't really seen imo since.

 

To me it is like MI-24 is a half-born baby, at the start army wanted a good transport helicopter like what UH-1 was for USA in Vietnam. So the Mi-4 was that. Then the army wanted it to be weaponized like a UH-1 was. So AH-4 got that. Then it was found that Mi-4 is not enough and more is required. So Mi-8 and Mi-24 came out. 

At the start the idea that Mi-24 is same time a transport helicopter and then attack helicopter, got scratched that it became an attack helicopter with capability to carry troops in emergency or special case. And then that was used to carry extra ammunition so helicopter doesn't need to fly back to base to rearm but could do it on the field - as "why to waste the cargo space and power we do have?".

 

While the AH-64 is my favorite attack helicopter, the Mi-24 has its own unique special look. Example, before few years ago I totally disliked the look of the MiG-23. It was like one of the ugliest aircrafts I have seen. But something did grow on me about it, why it is now in my opinion the most beautiful aircraft ever made. But still regardless of that there are moments depending viewing angle that aircraft still looks "ugly". 

 That similar thing is with the Mi-24 for me. It is very intriguing but then sometimes totally odd. Like looking it from the front and some aspects it is very beautiful machine, and then in some moments it is like "what they were thinking?!".

 

The Mi-24 is the true "gunship" by its armament, protection and transport capabilities, as well fast speed and high altitude (V variant) to do so.

 

 

[JG-1_Vogel]

The MiG-23 is one of my all time favourite aircraft. It's a gorgeous design, you have good taste xD.

 

The thing that always stuck out for me with the hind, was how it's fuselage is "off centre" if you will by a few degrees. It makes it look like an ugly humpback but still looks mean as hell.

[schurem]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:31 PM, Mainstay said:

I’m really hoping we can fly this beauty before Xmas.

Nope, that ain't happening. Too bad. But a month or two later won't matter in the big picture, Hind is still going to be WTFawesome

[Mars Exulte]

6 hours ago, JG-1_Vogel said:

The thing that always stuck out for me with the hind, was how it's fuselage is "off centre" if you will by a few degrees.

 

*jaw drops*

I never noticed that before.

[SmukY]

Yes Hinds whole fuselage aside from the cockpit is slightly inclined to the right for negating rotor's lateral lift at higher speed (can be clearly seen in DCS on Ka-50's lower rotor at higher speeds, and if you go too fast, you risk collision of lower and upper rotor). Trimming this helo should be an piece of cake contrary to Mi-8 which clearly tilts a lot at higher speeds.

[JG-1_Vogel]

9 hours ago, zhukov032186 said:

 

*jaw drops*

I never noticed that before.

 

I didn't notice it for absolutely years. It's quite a minor angle but once you notice it you can never "un-see" it. A clever engineering solution for high speed flight handling.

[Top Jockey]

Hello,

 

In the middle of everything, I'm a bit lost regarding a forecast on the release date; is there anything more concrete on this ?

Thank you.

[Mars Exulte]

1 hour ago, Top Jockey said:

Hello,

 

In the middle of everything, I'm a bit lost regarding a forecast on the release date; is there anything more concrete on this ?

Thank you.

Nope. May I suggest my personal coping strategy :

 

Rocking back and forth in a corner while hugging yourself and muttering ''Wanna... wanna fly the Hind. The Hind. Only the Hind. Must.... fly.... Hind...''

[Fri13]

1 hour ago, Top Jockey said:

Hello,

 

In the middle of everything, I'm a bit lost regarding a forecast on the release date; is there anything more concrete on this ?

Thank you.

 

As far I know, Mi-24 was postponed to at least 2021 Q1. So nothing more solid. 

[Top Jockey]

11 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

Nope. May I suggest my personal coping strategy :

 

Rocking back and forth in a corner while hugging yourself and muttering ''Wanna... wanna fly the Hind. The Hind. Only the Hind. Must.... fly.... Hind...''

 

5 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

 

As far I know, Mi-24 was postponed to at least 2021 Q1. So nothing more solid. 

 

Thank you guys.

 

...well, in the meanwhile I've just bought my first ED DCS helicopter a few minutes ago: Mi-8 MTV2.

 

Although I always was more of a "jet fighter" guy, I'm also not strange to 1 or 2 helicopter sim / game, so I 'pulled the trigger' in a too good to let pass price on the Mi-8.

[sublime]

1 hour ago, Top Jockey said:

 

 

Thank you guys.

 

...well, in the meanwhile I've just bought my first ED DCS helicopter a few minutes ago: Mi-8 MTV2.

 

Although I always was more of a "jet fighter" guy, I'm also not strange to 1 or 2 helicopter sim / game, so I 'pulled the trigger' in a too good to let pass price on the Mi-8.

I think you chose well - I hear great things about that module. I own the UH1 and love it

The gazelle and KA50.. I wouldnt advocate for as much. i know peoples heads are gonna fcking explode but I just.. dont like the KA50. IDK why.. 

the gazelle is a different story, different reasons I dont really like it.