Su-30MKK Full fid or FC3 version?

[gavagai]

Help a dummy out, what new things would the Su-30MKK bring that the Su-27 doesn't have? Which is the better plane, or are they different roles?

 

It would have better radar, better data link, better RWR, better weapons. Those of us who have faced it in BMS know to fear it.

 

Our Su27 is like an F16A. Good beginning, but a lot of room to improve.

[PLAAF]

Help a dummy out, what new things would the Su-30MKK bring that the Su-27 doesn't have? Which is the better plane, or are they different roles?

 

First of all Su-27 is an air superiority fighter with no air to ground capability (dump bomb and unguided rocket don't count).

Su-30 is a multirole fighter bomber. Basically the Russian version of F-15E strike eagle.

It has a full range of air to ground weapon for precision strike, antiship, SEAD etc. missions.

 

Su-27's radar use S-band, that's why sometimes you lose radar lock then your enemy flies much lower than you. And Su-27 made it worse since it has no fox 3 missiles. If you lose your lock after R-27 launch, your R-27 won't be able to hit anyone.

 

Su-30 on the other hand use X-band radar, the same type of radar used by F-15C. On top of that it has fox 3 missiles like the R-77.

[AeriaGloria]

Help a dummy out, what new things would the Su-30MKK bring that the Su-27 doesn't have? Which is the better plane, or are they different roles?

 

Have you ever wanted a modern flanker in DCS? Have you ever looked at the guided weapons of Su-25T and think, “wow it would be great if Flanker could use these.”

 

KH-31, KH-58, R-77, KH-29, upgraded N001 Radar with ground mapping modes add dual target attack, GMTI, helicopter attack mode

 

It will have two seats so a buddy can use all those MFDs to get all those smart weapons on target, it’s the first Flanker with the transonic G limitation fixed and removed.

 

It is not MKI, but without canards, thrust vectoring, and the heavy Irbis, it retains more of the original Flanker performance in speed and range. It would in many ways be the contemporary equal of F-16CM and F-18 lot 20 we have.

 

It even has aerial refueling, laser guided bombs, I believe the OLS-30 IRST can be used for air to ground designation in a dive, all the talk about RedFor being left behind would become obsolete:)

 

@PLAAF, where did you see that N-001VE is X band?

[unknown]

Yeah, it would be a dream come true finally :bounce:

 

But tbh i'm sticking with:

Not decided yet, depends on attainable data. So don't put your hopes up too high.

until we have an EA announce date. :cry:

[AeriaGloria]

Yeah, it would be a dream come true finally :bounce:

 

But tbh i'm sticking with:

 

until we have an EA announce date. :cry:

 

Of course, and they want to do something without MFD, so all speculation. But it does warm my heart after so many years of lost hope for any REDFOR attention

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

Will hard points 4/9 come standard on our DCS bird? :megalol:

[AeriaGloria]

Will hard points 4/9 come standard on our DCS bird? :megalol:

Well, there're 12 pylons on MKK too. There's not too much picture showing the 4/9 pylon.

 

 

 

Apparently:D

[Quake2Marine]

Have you ever wanted a modern flanker in DCS? Have you ever looked at the guided weapons of Su-25T and think, “wow it would be great if Flanker could use these.”

 

KH-31, KH-58, R-77, KH-29, upgraded N001 Radar with ground mapping modes add dual target attack, GMTI, helicopter attack mode

 

It will have two seats so a buddy can use all those MFDs to get all those smart weapons on target, it’s the first Flanker with the transonic G limitation fixed and removed.

 

It is not MKI, but without canards, thrust vectoring, and the heavy Irbis, it retains more of the original Flanker performance in speed and range. It would in many ways be the contemporary equal of F-16CM and F-18 lot 20 we have.

 

It even has aerial refueling, laser guided bombs, I believe the OLS-30 IRST can be used for air to ground designation in a dive, all the talk about RedFor being left behind would become obsolete:)

 

@PLAAF, where did you see that N-001VE is X band?

 

Sounds awesome, sign me up. I'd love a more Russian full fidelity plane that is more modern than the MiG-21/23.

 

Edit: Not super keen about it being a two-seater though. Is it fully flyable from the front? I dont have any friends that play DCS so I would be out of luck for a co-pilot.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Quake2Marine

[J-20]

Sounds awesome, sign me up. I'd love a more Russian full fidelity plane that is more modern than the MiG-21/23.

 

Edit: Not super keen about it being a two-seater though. Is it fully flyable from the front? I dont have any friends that play DCS so I would be out of luck for a co-pilot.

 

I agree with you. I love air to air combat. That's what I enjoy most. The rear pilot is for air to ground weapon system. So if he/she is there, that means I have to share my hardpoints with him/her. I absolutely don't want to share any of my hardpoints with anyone. They are MINE, MINE for air to air missiles only. :P

[Coxy_99]

Make it :thumbup:

[dundun92]

This would be fantastic if you can get the info Deka. I think this would be very popular, a lot of people have been waiting for something like this.

[J-20]

I know it may be hard for anyone to get enough info on the Su-30.

If so, I just wish Deka to move on to the next module as quickly as possible.

Preferably J-8F and J-7G. To me, with ASM, each of those module can easily worth $200.

[PLAAF]

Have you ever wanted a modern flanker in DCS? Have you ever looked at the guided weapons of Su-25T and think, “wow it would be great if Flanker could use these.”

 

KH-31, KH-58, R-77, KH-29, upgraded N001 Radar with ground mapping modes add dual target attack, GMTI, helicopter attack mode

 

It will have two seats so a buddy can use all those MFDs to get all those smart weapons on target, it’s the first Flanker with the transonic G limitation fixed and removed.

 

It is not MKI, but without canards, thrust vectoring, and the heavy Irbis, it retains more of the original Flanker performance in speed and range. It would in many ways be the contemporary equal of F-16CM and F-18 lot 20 we have.

 

It even has aerial refueling, laser guided bombs, I believe the OLS-30 IRST can be used for air to ground designation in a dive, all the talk about RedFor being left behind would become obsolete:)

 

@PLAAF, where did you see that N-001VE is X band?

 

Here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mech_radar

[AeriaGloria]

Here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mech_radar

 

Don’t see anything about X band

 

N001VE (RLPK-27VE)

Fitted to Chinese Su-30MKK. This will substantially improve air-to-air performance, and increase air-to-ground resolution. N001VE incorporated the moving target indication (MTI) and mapping capabilities, and capability to detect low flying or hovering helicopters. Processor replaced Baguet series BCVM-486-6, capable of simultaneously engaging two of ten targets tracked with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles and compatibility for R-77/RVV-AE. Tracking distance is extended up to 70 km.

 

I don’t think it’s 100% right either, two semi actives at once? Sounds like they’re mixing it up with Pero antenna

[PLAAF]

Don’t see anything about X band

 

 

 

I don’t think it’s 100% right either, two semi actives at once? Sounds like they’re mixing it up with Pero antenna

 

In the box at top right corner.

[AeriaGloria]

In the box at top right corner.

 

They can’t be right or are mixing up Pero information which I believe is X band. The original N-001 is an S band Radar, a much longer wavelength that i believe has worse accuracy and tail aspect ability. As far as I can tell, all N-001 variants that do not have Pero have the original S band antenna. Even the Wikipedia article says as much when it says antenna is in 3cm band, right in middle of S band frequencies.

[GGTharos]

This wouldn't the the first erroneous claim of guiding multiple SARH missiles to separate targets simultaneously ... for the Flanker and for other aircraft as well.

Wiki is not a systems capabilities source, only a research starting point at best.

 

And in this case, it looks like it is just mis-interpretation the way the sentence is written. It's capable of SARH and ARH missile employment, and it can engage multiple targets with ARH, 'obviously'.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

An MSA radar (Like the N001 family sans the Pero, which is vapourware) usually does DTT through having the beam hop quickly between two targets and the hack rate would not be enough for SARH guidance. It seems to be a feature unique to PESA equipped aircraft as they can have multiple beams IIRC.

[dundun92]

AFAIK PESA doesnt have multiple beams, it just moves its beam extremely quickly. AESA can definitely have multiple beams at once.

[Pöri]

Interesting info: (RLPK-27VEP) N001VEP is the improved SU-30MKK N001VE having a range of 250km the N001VEP (RLPK-27VEP) has a range of 300km can detect 10 targets to attack at 4 targets simultaneously tracks at an angle of 120 degrees in Venezuela has detected an F-16A Block 15 160km and another SU-30 200km. The radar looks down and up systems with anti-jamming features.

 

In contrast to the upcoming Eurofighter Typhoon module, the Su 30MKI N011M Bars radar would be the right one.

 

On 21 July 2015, India and UK began the bilateral exercise named Indradhanush with aircraft operating from three Royal Air Force bases. The exercises included both Beyond Visual Range (BVR) and Within Visual Range (WVR) exercises between the Su-30MKI and Eurofighter Typhoon. Indian media reported the results were in favour of the IAF with a score of 12-0 at WVR engagements. They also claim that the IAF Su-30MKIs held an edge over the Typhoons in BVR engagements though not in as dominating a manner. The RAF issued a statement that the results being reported by the Indian media did not reflect the results of the exercise.[86] According to Aviation International News In close combat, thrust vector control on the Flankers more than compensated for the greater thrust-to-weight ratio of the Typhoon.

 

Another question about Eurofighter Typhoon...

 

Against AIM 54 and Meteor missiles, the RVV BD would be the solution. When Meteor missile enters DCS World, F 16 and F 18 pilots will cry!

 

Test firing of the Russian R-37M hypersonic air-to-air missile (also known as RVV-BD) from the Su-35 fighter jets are planned for end-2020 while flight tests to confirm compatibility with the Su-35 have already commenced.

 

The R-37M is intended to be the main long-range air-to-air weapon for current and future Su and MiG type Russian fighter jets well into the next decade. It is intended to replace the R-77 missiles whose maximum range is around 100 km at supersonic speeds (2-3 times the speed of sound) compared to the R-37M’s 200 km at hypersonic speeds (six times the speed of sound).

 

The missile will compete with the Raytheon-made AIM-120C (160 plus km range), the AIM-260 JATM (200 km plus range) being developed by Lockheed Martin and MBDA’s Meteor (160 km range with 60 km ‘no-escape-zone’) that is among the weapons for the Rafale, Gripen and F-35 jets .

 

Though the missile is claimed to have a 200 km range, the ideal targeting distance (also known as no-escape-zone) depends upon the type of enemy aircraft; for fighter jets it is 40–70 km, for stealth aircraft or cruise missiles, this distance would be less, for large bombers or early warning aircraft, the effective firing distance could be greater than 70 km-100km. The missile is able to take advantage of its hypersonic speed at relatively shorter targeting distance and hit enemy aircraft equipped with the most sophisticated missile detection systems.

 

Sorry bad english! :)

Edited September 30, 2020 by Pöri

[PLAAF]

 

In contrast to the upcoming Eurofighter Typhoon module, the Su 30MKI N011M Bars radar would be the right one.

 

Dude, this is a flight simulation. Not a game. Fairness should only be achieved via getting a better plane or a better variant of plane.

 

If it is the MKK, then it is MKK. Deka only make Chinese modules, so if you want something better, you will have to ask for MKK2 or MKK 3 or even a J-15 or J-16. But as of right now, there isn't even enough data for MKK as it is. So we are definitely not getting the MKK2.

 

 

 

Test firing of the Russian R-37M hypersonic air-to-air missile (also known as RVV-BD) from the Su-35 fighter jets are planned for end-2020 while flight tests to confirm compatibility with the Su-35 have already commenced.

 

The R-37M is intended to be the main long-range air-to-air weapon for current and future Su and MiG type Russian fighter jets well into the next decade. It is intended to replace the R-77 missiles whose maximum range is around 100 km at supersonic speeds (2-3 times the speed of sound) compared to the R-37M’s 200 km at hypersonic speeds (six times the speed of sound).

 

The missile will compete with the Raytheon-made AIM-120C (160 plus km range), the AIM-260 JATM (200 km plus range) being developed by Lockheed Martin and MBDA’s Meteor (160 km range with 60 km ‘no-escape-zone’) that is among the weapons for the Rafale, Gripen and F-35 jets .

 

I doubt we will have enough data to make R-37M or the Meteor.

 

 

Sorry bad english! :)

 

You are not excused :P

[Pöri]

Dude, this is a flight simulation. Not a game. Fairness should only be achieved via getting a better plane or a better variant of plane.

 

If it is the MKK, then it is MKK. Deka only make Chinese modules, so if you want something better, you will have to ask for MKK2 or MKK 3 or even a J-15 or J-16. But as of right now, there isn't even enough data for MKK as it is. So we are definitely not getting the MKK2.

 

I doubt we will have enough data to make R-37M or the Meteor.

 

You are not excused :P

 

 

J 11A same air to air missiles like Su 30MKK!

J 11A get MFI 55, N001VE only 5 km away worse locking range than N001VEP!

J 11A use same air to grund weapons like Su 30MKK!

 

I dont undertand why get Su 30MKK...

 

Real solution platforms use R 33, R 33S, R 33E, RVV SD, R 37, R 37M, RVV BD!

 

Real solution to better than crap R 27ER and lucky R 27ET shots and crap R 77 only 10 - 15 km no escape zone vs noob pilots lucky kills.

 

F 16 - FA 18 - F 14 pilots watching you datalink 100+ km, use TWS + AMRAAM shot without RWR alert and turn out the air combat. This is the problem!

[BlackPixxel]

This wouldn't the the first erroneous claim of guiding multiple SARH missiles to separate targets simultaneously ... for the Flanker and for other aircraft as well.

Wiki is not a systems capabilities source, only a research starting point at best.

 

And in this case, it looks like it is just mis-interpretation the way the sentence is written. It's capable of SARH and ARH missile employment, and it can engage multiple targets with ARH, 'obviously'.

 

R-27R/ER was from the begining designed for dual target engagement. It works with half the "PRF", so homing pulse 1 goes to target 1, homing pulse 2 to target 2 and the cycle repeats, with additional pulses that the radar itself uses for tracking between the individual homing phases.

Radio correction works the same, there are two time slots, for missile 1 and for missile 2, which allows for dual target engagement as well.

And that is for R-27 made in the 80's!

 

With a PESA such as BARS on a Su-30 it is absolutely possible to engage two targets at the same time with R-27R/ER

Edited September 30, 2020 by BlackPixxel

[dundun92]

I think the question is more whether a MSA radar can do it practically, not the missile itself. AFAIK you need at least a PESA to do that practically.

[BlackPixxel]

Yes, but Su-30MKI, MKA, MKM and SM have such a PESA and the ability to engage two targets at once.

 

They can also STT lock 4 targets at once and engage all of them with R-77.