AI Aircraft and HARM Behaviour

[169th_DedCat]

I've noticed that AI SEAD aircraft, such as the F-16 Falcon, will employ their HARMs against both SAM radars and their support vehicles (launchers, reload vehicles, command vehicles, etc.), none of which transmit any radar signals. AI HARMs will track and destroy these vehicles as well as they do any transmitting radar.

 

This isn't a huge issue, since it's purely an AI one, but it is still unrealistic.

 

IRL smart SAM operators will switch their radar off if they detect they are under SEAD attack. It would add some interesting depth to see SAMs and AAA in LOMAC doing this against the Frogfoot. It would diminish the magic-bullet aspect of anti-radiation missiles in the game currently.

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

Dedcat, I'm not sure you are 100% correct. I ran some quick tests (big flight of F-16 with HARM against various russian ground SAM units) and while there is an error,most seem correct. Some examples.....

 

1 OSA launcher, 1 Osa Loader - the Osa loader is also HARM'ed Error :(

 

KUB site - only 1 HARM fired at the STR, rest were strafed. Correct :)

 

BUK site - 5 HARM fired at SR unit and the 4 LN units, Ural-375 PBU both were strafed. IMHO correct :) since the LN unit has tracking/guidance radome. On these types of system, even in standby mode when not actively tracking, some sources state enough RF leakage could occur for an ARM to home in.

 

S300 site - 3 HARM fired at radar vehicles, rest strafed. Correct :)

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

Likewise Russian a/c will only fire 1 ARM at a Patriot unit STR and strafe the rest, fire 2 ARM's at a Hawk unit SR and TR, strafe the rest.

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

, I have missions where flights of F-16C + HARM kill-off all of the Buk or Kub launchers in an area, but leave the radars operating.

Can't argue with you there, you would expect the AI to take down the STR first.

 

Patriot can not lock and launch on an incoming ballistic Kh-31P (which has got to be wrong), but somehow an F-15C radar can lock them up and shoot them down, head-to-head, with an AMRAAM …

Aaah, now we are into a different discussion and I am more inclined to agree with you. I tried your scenario and it ignores smallish ballistic Kh-31P, yet if you throw the "Kitchen sink" (Kh-22) in its general direction (had naval target sheltering in port under Patriot umbrella), it will engage these larger ballistic targets. Question - is the Patriot PAC2 undermodelled or maybe more likely the AMRAAM (and other AAM's too) overmodelled? I've used an Su-33 with its big sticks to shoot down an incoming Kh-22 - pure fluke actually, I thought I had found the launching Tu-22!

[GGTharos]

From what I hear AMRAAMs are *under* modelled in some ways .- accordin gto ruggbutt.

 

No, the Patriot in this case is more than likely under-modelled, I think ... or perhaps it is modelled this way to give the Russian SEAD a chance.

 

It would be nice if Patriot could fire at it - IMHO the larger russian missiles should make a big enough impression on radar to warrant a couple patriots comitted to them, whereas say, a Kh-25MPU wouldn't ....

[D-Scythe]

AFAIK, contemporary versions of the Russian S300 and the Patriot PAC-2+ can engage and destroy ARMs in the air. It's one of the reasons that make them such a huge threat.

 

Interestingly, ship-based SAMs, like the S300 derivative in the Moscow and the SM-2 in the Ticonderoga (which is also WAY undermodelled, btw) can and do engage ARMs in Lock On. Hell, they'll even engage AGM-65 Mavs if they get the chance to.

[169th_DedCat]

You may be right Brit about the error not existing for all SAM types, but I think it's more than just the Osa and it's support vehicle. I have just recently played a multiplayer mission where I observed a F-16 SEAD striking what I remember being a Kub SAM site--it definately wasn't an Osa anyway--one radar vehicle and many launch vehicles. HARMs were used against the radar and each of the launchers. Perhaps the error was due to something the mission creator had done when assigning those targets to the Falcons, but I think I remember the Falcon SEAD in the first A-10 campaign mission doing something similar to this against another Kub-like SAM site (maybe it was an Osa in that case, I'll have to double check).