What is gen3 and gen4 jet look like if Axis win ww2?

[ju8712124822]

When play heart of iron4 TNO mod ,a world Axis win ww2.

 

and I look Nazi and Japan Aircraft Tech tree

Is not very different between real world in  1960 to 1990

 

Nazi gen4 Multirole combat aircraft is Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

Japan gen4 aircraft is F2 but with different name.

 

So  What is gen3 and gen4 jet look like if Axis win ww2? 

 

  

[Mogster]

The USSR and Western allies put a lot of effort into recovering information about and then evaluating aircraft from Germany and Japan. Particularly in the case of Germany their designers quite often continued to work in aviation after the war.

 

With this in mind why would current designs be different when allied and axis technology was pretty much fused after WW2?

[Zius]

It's an interesting question...

 

But I don't think you can say that 4th Gen Axis Germany = Eurofighter because Eurofighter has had significant input from the UK as well as from Italy and Spain.

 

Yes, after WW2, the US and USSR took a lot of research from Germany but that doesn't mean the resulting aircraft would be the same.

 

For example, look at the Ta-183, which was in development at the end of WW2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_183

 

You can easily say that this aircraft influenced both the MiG-15 and the F-86 Sabre as well as the Saab 29 Tunnan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-15

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-86_Sabre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_29_Tunnan

 

Kurt Tank himself used the basis of the Ta-183 to create the Pulqui II:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_IAe_33_Pulqui_II

 

You can compare for yourself the data from Wikipedia:

 

Ta 183	Pulqui II	MiG-15bis	F-86F-40-NA	Saab Tunnan
Crew: 1	Crew: one	Crew: 1	Crew: 1	Crew: 1
Length: 9.4 m (30 ft 10 in)	Length: 11.68 m (38 ft 4 in)	Length: 10.102 m (33 ft 2 in)	Length: 37 ft 1 in (11.30 m)	Length: 10.23 m (33 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 10 m (32 ft 10 in)	Wingspan: 10.6 m (34 ft 9 in)	Wingspan: 10.085 m (33 ft 1 in)	Wingspan: 39 ft 1 in (11.91 m)	Wingspan: 11 m (36 ft 1 in)
Height: 3.86 m (12 ft 8 in)	Height: 3.5 m (11 ft 6 in)	Height: 3.7 m (12 ft 2 in)	Height: 14 ft 1 in (4.29 m)	Height: 3.75 m (12 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 22.5 m2 (242 sq ft)	Wing area: 25.1 m2 (270 sq ft)	Wing area: 20.6 m2 (222 sq ft)	Wing area: 313.4 sq ft (29.12 m2)	Wing area: 24.15 m2 (259.9 sq ft)
Empty weight: 2,830 kg (6,239 lb)	Empty weight: 3,736 kg (8,236 lb)	Airfoil: root: TsAGI S-10; tip: TsAGI SR-3[113]	Airfoil: root: NACA 0009-64 mod.; tip: NACA 0008.1-64 mod.[93]	Empty weight: 4,845 kg (10,681 lb)
Gross weight: 4,300 kg (9,480 lb)	Gross weight: 6,875 kg (15,157 lb)	Empty weight: 3,681 kg (8,115 lb)	Empty weight: 11,125 lb (5,046 kg)	Max takeoff weight: 8,375 kg (18,464 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Heinkel HeS 011 turbojet, 13 kN (2,900 lbf) thrust	Powerplant: 1 × Rolls-Royce Nene II turbojet, 22.69 kN (5,100 lbf) thrust	Gross weight: 5,044 kg (11,120 lb)	Gross weight: 15,198 lb (6,894 kg)	Powerplant: 1 × Svenska Flygmotor RM2B centrifugal-flow turbojet engine with afterburning, 27.0 kN (6,070 lbf) thrust
		Max takeoff weight: 6,106 kg (13,461 lb) with 2x600 l (160 US gal; 130 imp gal) drop-tanks	Max takeoff weight: 18,152 lb (8,234 kg)
		Fuel capacity: 1,420 l (380 US gal; 310 imp gal) internal	Fuel capacity: JP-4 fuel:- 437 US gallons (364 imp gal; 1,650 L) internals + 2x 200 US gallons (170 imp gal; 760 L) drop tanks
		Powerplant: 1 × Klimov VK-1 centrifugal-flow turbojet, 26.5 kN (5,950 lbf) thrust	Powerplant: 1 × General Electric J47-GE-27 turbojet engine, 5,910 lbf (26.3 kN) thrust
Performance	Performance	Performance	Performance	Performance
Maximum speed: 955 km/h (593 mph, 516 kn)	Maximum speed: 1,080 km/h (670 mph, 580 kn)	Maximum speed: 1,076 km/h (669 mph, 581 kn) at sea level	Maximum speed: 687 mph (1,106 km/h, 597 kn) at sea level at 14,212 lb (6,446 kg) combat weight	Maximum speed: 1,060 km/h (660 mph, 570 kn)
Service ceiling: 14,000 m (46,000 ft)	Cruise speed: 954 km/h (593 mph, 515 kn)			Range: 1,100 km (680 mi, 590 nmi)
Rate of climb: 20.4 m/s (4,020 ft/min)	Range: 3,090 km (1,920 mi, 1,670 nmi)	1,107 km/h (688 mph; 598 kn) / M0.9 at 3,000 m (9,843 ft)	678 mph (589 kn; 1,091 km/h) / M1.02	Service ceiling: 15,500 m (50,900 ft)
Wing loading: 196 kg/m2 (40 lb/sq ft)	Endurance: 2 hours, 50 minutes		599 mph (521 kn; 964 km/h) at 35,000 ft (10,668 m) at 15,352 lb (6,964 kg)	Rate of climb: 32.1 m/s (6,320 ft/min)
Thrust/weight: 0.37	Service ceiling: 15,000 m (49,000 ft)	Maximum speed: Mach 0.87 at sea level	597 mph (519 kn; 961 km/h) at 21,148 ft (6,446 m)
	Rate of climb: 25.5 m/s (5,020 ft/min)	Cruise speed: 850 km/h (530 mph, 460 kn) Mach 0.69	599 mph (521 kn; 964 km/h) at 22,835 ft (6,960 m)
		Ferry range: 2,520 km (1,570 mi, 1,360 nmi) at 12,000 m (39,370 ft) with 2x600 l (160 US gal; 130 imp gal) drop-tanks
		Service ceiling: 15,500 m (50,900 ft)	Stall speed: 124 mph (200 km/h, 108 kn)
		Rate of climb: 51.2 m/s (10,080 ft/min)	Range: 1,525 mi (2,454 km, 1,325 nmi)
		Wing loading: 296.4 kg/m2 (60.7 lb/sq ft)	Combat range: 414 mi (666 km, 360 nmi) with two 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs and 2x 200 US gallons (170 imp gal; 760 L) drop tanks[94]
		Thrust/weight: 0.54	Service ceiling: 49,600 ft (15,100 m) at combat weight
			Rate of climb: 9,000 ft/min (46 m/s) at sea level
			Time to altitude: 30,000 ft (9,144 m) in 5 minutes 12 seconds
			Lift-to-drag: 15
			Thrust/weight: 0.42
Armament	Armament	Armament	Armament	Armament
Guns: 4 × 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannon	Guns: 4 × 20 mm (0.79 in) Hispano-Suiza HS.404	Guns:	Guns: 6 X 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M3 Browning machine guns (1,800 rounds in total)	Guns:
Hardpoints: 4		2 × 23 mm Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 autocannon in the lower left fuselage (80 rounds per gun, 160 rounds total)	Rockets: variety of rocket launchers; e.g.: 2 Matra rocket pods with 18 SNEB 68 mm rockets per pod
Missiles: 4 × Ruhrstahl X-4 Wire Guided AAMs		1 × 37 mm Nudelman N-37 autocannon in the lower right fuselage (40 rounds total)	Bombs: 5,300 lb (2,400 kg) of payload on four external hardpoints, bombs were usually mounted on outer two pylons as the inner pairs were plumbed for 2 200 US gallons (760 L) drop tanks which gave the Sabre a more useful range. A wide variety of bombs could be carried (max standard loadout being two 1,000 lb bombs plus two drop tanks), napalm canisters and could have included a tactical nuclear weapon.	4 x 20 mm (0.79 in) akan m/47C (license produced Hispano Mark V) autocannon with 180 rounds per gun
Bombs: 500 kg (1,102 lb) of bombs		Hardpoints: 2 with provisions to carry combinations of:
		Bombs: 100 kg (220 lb) bombs		Hardpoints:
		Other: drop tanks, or unguided rockets
				8 inner hardpoints for rocket/missile pylons; inner hardpoint only capable of carrying one smaller rocket due to the landing gear[41]
				2 outer hardpoints for drop tanks or incendiary bombs, however tests were conducted with carrying rockets on this hardpoint: 8 x 75 mm Bofors, 2-4 x 103 mm Bofors or 1 x 180 mm Bofors rocket could be carried per drop tank hardpoint via a dedicated pylon[41]
				Rockets:
				75 mm (3.0 in) srak m/55 (Bofors 75 mm (3.0 in) rocket "Frida")[41] air-to-air rocket with contact fuze high-capacity warhead;[42] 2-4 rockets per pylon up to a total of 24
				80 mm (3.1 in) prak m/46C (RP-3 with sloped fins of Swedish design)[41][42] air-to-ground rocket with 80 mm (3.1 in) armour-piercing warhead; 1 rocket per pylon up to a total of 8
				145 mm (5.7 in) psrak m/49 (Bofors 103 mm (4.1 in) rocket)[41] air-to-ground rocket with 145 mm (5.7 in) shaped charge warhead; 1-2 rockets per pylon up to a total of 14
				150 mm (5.9 in) srak m/51 (Bofors 103 mm (4.1 in) rocket)[41] air-to-ground rocket with 150 mm (6 in) high-explosive warhead; 1-2 rockets per pylon up to a total of 14
				180 mm (7.1 in) hprak m/49 (Bofors 180 mm (7.1 in) rocket)[41] air-to-ground rocket with semi armor-piercing, high-explosive warhead; 1 rocket per pylon up to a total of 4
				Missiles:
				Rb 24 (AIM-9B Sidewinder) air-to-air missile; carried on the third hardpoint from the center
				Bombs:
				200 kg (441 lb) brandb m/51 incendiary bomb; carried in on the drop tank hardpoint[40]
				600 kg (1,323 lb) drop tanks could be armed as incendiary bombs in the air or filled with napalm from the start; carried in on the drop tank hardpoint

[Zius]

So even if the basic layout of the "Ta-183 family" is the same, the specs are quite different.

 

Another post-war aircraft by a German designer, in this case Willy Messerschmitt: the Hispano Aviación / Helwan Ha-300 (interestingly with for the 3rd prototype an engine designed by the Austrian-German Brandner)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helwan_HA-300

 

And the HAL HF-24 Marut designed by Kurt Tank:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_HF-24_Marut

 

These aircraft area more difficult to compare with similar types, but in any case they are quite different from aircraft of the same age. Neither was a great success but that is likely due to the limitations of the countries of origin.

[Exorcet]

Specifically what aircraft would exist would be almost impossible to predict. Germany would have likely retained a technological lead early on, but even if they won the war (depending on how it was won - did Germany take France and UK and then ceasefire? Did they successfully take the USSR? Did they nuke the US?) they would have had to deal with the effects of the war on their economy. The US would have been much better off in this regard in most situations which might have allowed a hypothetical losing US side catch up to Germany technologically without mass capturing their scientists or enjoying post war cooperation with Britain. I also wonder how long the Nazis would last post WWII, a victorious Nazi Germany could have ended up falling apart like the USSR.

[Zius]

Another thing you need to consider: all planes developed in Germany itself after the war were designed to fit NATO doctrines. There were some marked differences between NATO doctrines and WW2 German doctrines and it would make sense if Axis Germany would have continued evolving their own doctrines rather than adopt NATO ones.