AI Commands

[Relayer]

IMO, possibly the single biggest issue with SP DCS play is the lack of ability to really lead a section / division - or to be led by the AI. AI currently are good for little more than getting shot down - something that when the dynamic campaign comes out (and even currently in Liberation etc) is a liability. 

I don't quite know what sort of interface this should be, but I think Heatblur's Jester wheel might be one possibly good option. Or vastly expanded voice control options - or both. Some sort of way to organise flight contracts would be awesome, so as to define by default who will sort high/low etc - something that the current AI is totally unable to do.

As I see it, the AI needs to be able to do the following (but not limited to):

General comms & admin - Ops checks etc. I shouldn't hear "2, bingo - 2, ejecting" in quick succession unless I have really screwed something up. I should be hearing calls for joker, winchester etc.

Formations - including shackle, proper rejoins, turns (eg tac turns, in place 180s), cross turns etc. Both as an immediate and an 'on my mark'. I should be able to say "Tac right, go!" and have it happen. If you want to be really fancy, add in the ability for non verbal signals - rudder waggle, wing flash etc.

A/A - Conduct a BVR engagement on-timeline, and at least by a preset contract. I (as the leader) shouldn't have to individually assign targets, I should simply hear "2, sorted low" and know that it's taken care of. Should be able to execute tactics such as chainsaw / grinder etc. Execute ACM with some degree of competency.

A/G - Attack pre-set, pre-agreed targets - eg in attacking a factory, 1 will target building X, 2 will target building Y. Attack a designated target-of-opportunity seen by the player (eg 2, attack the SA-8 at grid XX12345678), with some degree of granularity (eg weapon choice, attack heading, almost like a 9-line). Should be able to create / share markpoints and datalinked targets to and from player. 

I have no expectations that these things would be a quick, easy, snap of the fingers solution to come up with, but we really, really need the ability to work with the AI in a much more functional manner than we currently do. At the moment, DCS does an amazing job of being a cockpit simulator. It simulates these aircraft in fabulous detail. But it does a very poor job of being a combat simulator. This, in my view, would dramatically overhaul the combat simulation and make DCS far more enjoyable to play.

[Relayer]

>1 year later, zero replies, zero acknowledgement from ED, still same useless AI. There's threads going back til at least 2016 and most likely before about this. Cool.

Edited March 14, 2024 by Relayer

[Exorcet]

The AI isn't useless and some of what you want can be done now. One method is to give the AI preplanned tasks in the ME and then order them to follow those tasks with the F10 wingman F6/7 options.

The interface does need improvement though. From basic things like an option to control second element directly to more choices and detail to pass to wingmen. I personally do not like wheels, including the Jester wheel. I've made my own thread on the subject:

There is support for this change, though differing opinions on how to do it. It seems like we might need both a flatscreen and VR menu at least.

[Relayer]

I mean that's not really a solution is it? That is, at best, an excessively complex, kludged together semi-workaround that doesn't come close to what we should have in 2024. I can't say I particularly want to have to go through and 'think for' every AI flight in a Liberation mission for example (which could be upwards of 20 AI flights) and even then still have janky stuff happening. Falcon 4.0 / BMS has done this much better for 20+ years, and while there it isn't perfect, I can at least get the AI to attack the stuff I want it to attack, sort targets and employ on something like a timeline, not do spectacularly dumb <profanity>, and employ some reasonably 'realistic' BVR tactics.

Edited March 14, 2024 by Relayer

[Exorcet]

44 minutes ago, Relayer said:

I mean that's not really a solution is it? That is, at best, an excessively complex, kludged together semi-workaround that doesn't come close to what we should have in 2024. I can't say I particularly want to have to go through and 'think for' every AI flight in a Liberation mission for example (which could be upwards of 20 AI flights) and even then still have janky stuff happening. Falcon 4.0 / BMS has done this much better for 20+ years, and while there it isn't perfect, I can at least get the AI to attack the stuff I want it to attack, sort targets and employ on something like a timeline, not do spectacularly dumb <profanity>, and employ some reasonably 'realistic' BVR tactics.

 

It's not clear what you're responding to. Is it the menu or the preplanning in the ME? I don't see either as workarounds. Having to direct 20 flights at once doesn't make sense when you're trying to fly your own mission, so I'm not suggesting it.

While DCS AI does need improvements, it can do basic things already, some of which are the things you've asked for above. I'm just trying to understand the request and give advice.

[Relayer]

2025, and not much changed yet. AI is still much as I remember it from Flanker. In some ways, more broken.

On 3/14/2024 at 9:53 PM, Exorcet said:

It's not clear what you're responding to. Is it the menu or the preplanning in the ME? I don't see either as workarounds. Having to direct 20 flights at once doesn't make sense when you're trying to fly your own mission, so I'm not suggesting it.

While DCS AI does need improvements, it can do basic things already, some of which are the things you've asked for above. I'm just trying to understand the request and give advice.

In regards to this, you took one tiny part of what I was talking about (assigning pre-planned ground targets) and said yep, you can do that in the ME. It ignores the vast majority of other items I had brought up, and is honestly a poor solution in any case, because the ME is omniscient. If I go into the ME to fix things, I also get to see everything that the OPFOR is doing as well. The 'recon' window in BMS does this better, I would say.

And I do maintain that the AI is more or less, functionally useless and significantly detracts from what ED describes as its core experience - PvE. As a user, not a mission creator, I shouldn't have to spend hours diving into the weeds and defining every single thing about how the AI should react in order to not have a maddening experience. They should act like trained pilots and I should be able to direct them as such.

We have great modules, but very little ability to use them in anything like a believable combat setting.