Accuracy of the shot page

[AJH63]

Hi all,

I've been using the shot page MGRS co-ordinates to do a BDA. I'm making either a WP or  TG using the co-ordinates then setting that as my ACQ source, slaving the TADS to it and it's not pointing at the target I just destroyed, i.e. I thought it would be able to direct me to where the hellfires where looking at when launched.

The targets are static

It doesn't seem to matter whether I acquire the target from an FCR sweep or TADS then lasing  it. 

I don't have any trouble hitting the targets.

Is it because  the MGRS square is only using eight numbers instead of 10 and that makes the square bigger and less accurate?

I have done an FCR sweep and used the TGT button (LS4) to populate the targets in the TSD and when I make them the ACQ source and slave the TADS to it they are not pointing the TADS directly to the targets either.

Is this a bug or just one of the quirks of the system?

I'd be interested to see if anyone else is finding this is the case.

 

Happy hunting.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2024 by AJH63
Add more narrative

[[DE] T-Bone]

23 hours ago, AJH63 said:

Hi all,

I've been using the shot page MGRS co-ordinates to do a BDA. I'm making either a WP or  TG using the co-ordinates then setting that as my ACQ source, slaving the TADS to it and it's not pointing at the target I just destroyed, i.e. I thought it would be able to direct me to where the hellfires where looking at when launched.

The targets are static

It doesn't seem to matter whether I acquire the target from an FCR sweep or TADS then lasing  it. 

I don't have any trouble hitting the targets.

Is it because  the MGRS square is only using eight numbers instead of 10 and that makes the square bigger and less accurate?

I have done an FCR sweep and used the TGT button (LS4) to populate the targets in the TSD and when I make them the ACQ source and slave the TADS to it they are not pointing the TADS directly to the targets either.

Is this a bug or just one of the quirks of the system?

I'd be interested to see if anyone else is finding this is the case.

 

Happy hunting.

 

 

 

 

 

I can't say whether the accuracy deviates that much due to the MGRS coordinate differences, but it 'could' well be that you are seeing a side effect of the INU bug here. 

Try again and reset your INU systems before you mark and engage the targets to see if it makes a difference.

 

Edited April 15, 2024 by [DE] T-Bone
Added link to INU-bug report

[AJH63]

Hi [DE] T-Bone,

I'll give the INU reset a try and get back with the results.

 

[AJH63]

So I went out and just before I did any acquisitioning of targets I landed and did INU 1 and INU 2 resets, then waited  until they had realigned ( got the map back on the TSD).

This didn't really provide  the accuracy I was hoping for using the co-ordinates of the shot page to create a WP and then making the WP my ACQ source and slaving the TADS to it.

What I did notice during all of this was the INU position confidence was changing from green to white, white meaning the radial position error is greater than 50 metres, I also noticed on the ten minute flight from Batumi to the cross runway airfield, which is where I have my targets set up, that the INU position confidence was sometimes up to a kilometre out, all the time the INUs were using doppler data.

So I think [DE] T-Bone is correct in saying it is an INU problem for accuracy although doing an INU reset didn't solve the problem.

It could be that when I take a hellfire shot(radar or laser) the INU accuracy is out by 50-100 metres and when I use those shot co-ordinates that would be the reason why I'm not going back to the destroyed target and have to search around a bit to find the target.

Is this INU accuracy going out greater than 50 metres  on a regular basis a known bug or just the reality of GPS/INS systems?

If it is a bug can someone let me know and I will post with a track into the bugs area.

I also mentioned in my original post I have done an FCR sweep and used the TGT button (LS4) to populate the targets in the TSD and when I make them the ACQ source and slave the TADS to it they are not pointing the TADS directly to the targets either. But that turned out to be a red herring as subsequent FCR scans and populating the target page and using them as the ACQ source was spot on when slaving the TADS.

Thanks everyone.

 

 

[[DE] T-Bone]

56 minutes ago, AJH63 said:

So I went out and just before I did any acquisitioning of targets I landed and did INU 1 and INU 2 resets, then waited  until they had realigned ( got the map back on the TSD).

This didn't really provide  the accuracy I was hoping for using the co-ordinates of the shot page to create a WP and then making the WP my ACQ source and slaving the TADS to it.

What I did notice during all of this was the INU position confidence was changing from green to white, white meaning the radial position error is greater than 50 metres, I also noticed on the ten minute flight from Batumi to the cross runway airfield, which is where I have my targets set up, that the INU position confidence was sometimes up to a kilometre out, all the time the INUs were using doppler data.

So I think [DE] T-Bone is correct in saying it is an INU problem for accuracy although doing an INU reset didn't solve the problem.

It could be that when I take a hellfire shot(radar or laser) the INU accuracy is out by 50-100 metres and when I use those shot co-ordinates that would be the reason why I'm not going back to the destroyed target and have to search around a bit to find the target.

Is this INU accuracy going out greater than 50 metres  on a regular basis a known bug or just the reality of GPS/INS systems?

If it is a bug can someone let me know and I will post with a track into the bugs area.

I also mentioned in my original post I have done an FCR sweep and used the TGT button (LS4) to populate the targets in the TSD and when I make them the ACQ source and slave the TADS to it they are not pointing the TADS directly to the targets either. But that turned out to be a red herring as subsequent FCR scans and populating the target page and using them as the ACQ source was spot on when slaving the TADS.

Thanks everyone.

 

 

Thanks for checking. Yes, it would be good if you can add a track file. 

[Floyd1212]

@AJH63 As an alternate method for accomplishing what you want, you might try zooming in a bit on the area you have been engaging, and place a TGT point with the TSD cursor over one of your shot marks.  Then you can CAQ that point again with the cursor, or type in the Txx number.  This might be a faster workflow than writing down MGRS and entering them again on the KDU.

It would be nice if you could CAQ directly by clicking on the shot mark, but I don't think that works.

[AJH63]

Hi Floyd1212,

I did as you suggested I was able to make a CAQ point(T56) over or very close to the shot X and then slave the TADS to it using it as an ACQ point.

I tried adding a TGT point using the cursor over the shot X but I may have been having finger trouble as it wouldn't work and for some reason my track didn't save either so I will fly it again and try to save it and post it.

Another thing I noticed in the updates is that we will be getting the Link function soon and my understanding is you can link the TADS to what the FCR is seeing which will give a real time BDA.

[AJH63]

Here is a track file of what I'm trying to demonstrate i.e. the shot page co-ordinates don't match up with the target acquisition.

If anyone has any thoughts whether or not it could be my technique or the discussed INU drift, a bug etc.

 

Cheers.

shot accuarcy.trk

[AJH63]

Hi,

it appears that after the latest update  2.9.5.55918 Missiles Shot-At Data Synchronization that the accuracy of the shot page is a lot better than earlier on.

I can now enter the co-ordinates of the shot page as a target or waypoint then use that as the acquisition source, slave the TADS to it and be pretty close to the destroyed target to be able to do a BDA.

Although that technique is pretty much made redundant with the link function.

 

Cheers