AI of units

[Kaktus]

Example, SEAD mission, 4 mig27 aed with anti radiation missilee, they approach the SAM area, they launch the missiles, they havr no missiles left, missiles fail to hit, SAM alive, they keep pushing with guns and obviously die.. what is this..must i specify all conditions and scripts and whatever to make them 1 percent intelligent or is this it? The height of artificial intelligence in dcs?..

 

Tried same mission woth Ka50, when i fly it obviously approach slowly, observe enemy, try hitost dangerous targets first, sams, then aaa, etc, when i put AI he keeps closing in, gets killed. Is this really so hard to script logic, like basic logic into the default mode..if not does it mean you have to script and define every collective movement and cyclic to make the AI not kill himself?

[TEMPEST.114]

Yes the AI really is that dumb.

You have to plan for everything. Have a look at my post in the first page of this forum for the Mission Editor Manual.

 

You will find several SET OPTIONS that you can set on AI Units, that might help you, but other than those, then yes, you will have to create your own behaviour with a combination of triggers, trigger zones and waypoints, waypoint actions and triggered actions. 

E.G.

Edited April 25, 2024 by Elphaba

[Kaktus]

Dear god, so you have to become excell ceo grandmaster to operate this nonsense into some sort of normalcy..

 

I guess the real upgrade we need is AI, not modules...

[TEMPEST.114]

1 hour ago, Kaktus said:

Dear god, so you have to become excell ceo grandmaster to operate this nonsense into some sort of normalcy..

 

I guess the real upgrade we need is AI, not modules...

Not at all, just think in basic logic and build up complexity using triggers and conditions, flags (variables) and actions. 

It's not hard, but it is intimidating/confusing at first. That's why the manual answers about 90%+ of all the questions asked on these forums; it's the last 10% where you really need to learn Lua and the DCS Scripting engine.

I think your frustration is not helping you learn this. If you want more one-to-one help, DM me and we can talk about what you need and ways of making it work.

One of the biggest problems the M.E. has is you can't copy/paste triggers/waypoint actions etc between units or between mission files/maps. 

That means there is A LOT of repetition every time you want to build a mission. 

Unless you manually hack the .miz lua file, but that can be dangerous if you don't really, really know what you're doing. 

As I said, I know it initially is frustrating that we're dealing with 90's tech here, but if you can get past that, you can still make great missions/campaigns, but the workload and frustration as you rub up against the tech and the limitations of the mission editor etc will still drive you nuts. 

Edited April 25, 2024 by Elphaba

[Exorcet]

Were you using the default SEAD task? I delete the default ones and use Search Then Engage usually. Gives more predictable behavior. I don't recall seeing my SEAD flights going in for gun kills in recent missions.

[Kaktus]

3 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Were you using the default SEAD task? I delete the default ones and use Search Then Engage usually. Gives more predictable behavior. I don't recall seeing my SEAD flights going in for gun kills in recent missions.

I used default sead, for ka50 i used ground attack, regardlees they fly like moths to fire.. brainless..

 

I really think dcs must urgently upgrade the underlying engine and ai resolution and logic chain, much more than build more modules.

Problem i see here is how can i build entertaining mission if i have to test built everyrhong to a point i know the result of the mission 100 oercent before i even take off to be part of the mission...there is no "im going to try to beat ai on advanced in order to test my skills" moment.. as you build this scripted nonsense its over, you already know you will win, 3 amraams here, 2 jdams there, 1 cap friendly to save my ass, boom, why bother flying.

[Exorcet]

8 minutes ago, Kaktus said:

I used default sead, for ka50 i used ground attack, regardlees they fly like moths to fire.. brainless..

You want to avoid the default tasks. Those are only good for simple situations, like making an AI attack something for testing purposes.

9 minutes ago, Kaktus said:

I really think dcs must urgently upgrade the underlying engine and ai resolution and logic chain, much more than build more modules.

Problem i see here is how can i build entertaining mission if i have to test built everyrhong to a point i know the result of the mission 100 oercent before i even take off to be part of the mission...there is no "im going to try to beat ai on advanced in order to test my skills" moment.. as you build this scripted nonsense its over, you already know you will win, 3 amraams here, 2 jdams there, 1 cap friendly to save my ass, boom, why bother flying.

DCS does need some AI improvements, but you don't have to test every last thing. You will have to learn some of DCS's quirks but when you do, you can make simple attack runs that work 98% of the time in just a few seconds. You also don't have to script a mission to the point where you know everything that happens. When I said the Search Then Engage was more predictable I meant it makes the AI stick to a task rather than randomly flying all over the place.

Also keep in mind that real combat missions are scripted to an extent. Actual pilots plan how they attack and how they will defend against being attacked. That's what you're setting up with AI waypoint actions. Even if DCS improves there really isn't any way around giving the AI the needed context it needs to approach its mission.

If you share your mission file I and others can look at it and try to help you figure out how to set the AI to get what you want.

[Kaktus]

Ok so i tried a mission, you can help me out here as I'm at a loss.

 

Mission: 

Night attack with mi24, 

 

Support mission: illumination of area position with artillery (can't be done so you have to script it), or send plane on a mission to drop illumination ordnance.

Enemy patrol closing in, this making GCI to redirect intercept flight and alerting Hind away, in my chopper more sense to hover in cover, while GCI dispatch interception flight..

After successful interception alert friendly units to recommit.

 

Is it possible to make plane dropping candles to drop only 2 every 10 minutes for max time of light

 

Edited May 2, 2024 by Kaktus
Grammer mistakes, autocorrect

[Exorcet]

I'm not sure if I fully understood, but here is a mission with triggers for your requests. If you play it you should see this:

An A-10 orbits and drops flares every X minutes while a Helicopter switches orbits depending on if an enemy is near, messages saying what's happening are output as text.

What's happening:

A-10

Every X minutes a flag is turned on and pushes A-10 Flare bombing task. The next waypoint after bombing returns to original orbit and the cycle repeats.

AH-1

Has two orbits. The second orbit is within a trigger zone. If enemy planes enter the zone, the AI will go hide further back at a predetermined orbit. Once the zone is clear, the AI resumes its mission.

AIsetup.miz